blind seals

[wolfgangh]

Hello,
it seems the blind seals at the L/H side of the rear crank and the balancer shaft are usually mounted with the rubber side facing out. Can somebody explain the reason for that?
If I would not know that all engines I have seen so far had them mounted that way, I would prefer to put them metal side out. This would reduce the dead volume behind the crank main bearing, forcing more lubrication etc.

What is the logic behind the rubber-side out position?

[Rick Lance]

On the left side of the motor there are two such rubber coated metal caps. The one for the balancer shaft goes rubber side out since it is exposed and cosmetically looks better finished that way. The crank cap is to be mounted rubber side in for the reason you mentioned, Wolfgang. That is the stock configuration. Your illustration shows it mounted correctly. Of course, this cap is concealed behind the plastic cover that captures the oil lines so appearance isn't an issue.

[wolfgangh]

Hello Rick,
thanks a lot for your fast response, confirming my assumption.
Here is another one for the front L/H crank seal:
it looks almost symmetrical, only one side has small slots (see arrows in pic). Which side is facing crank, which one is outside?

[Rick Lance]

The seal is double lipped so it doesn't really matter. I have run them both ways without any trouble but I normally run them with the slotted side in.

[WVWRZ500N]

On the left side of the motor there are two such rubber coated metal caps. The one for the balancer shaft goes rubber side out since it is exposed and cosmetically looks better finished that way. The crank cap is to be mounted rubber side in for the reason you mentioned, Wolfgang. That is the stock configuration. Your illustration shows it mounted correctly. Of course, this cap is concealed behind the plastic cover that captures the oil lines so appearance isn't an issue.

Rick,

You mention that Wolfgang's positioning of the blind seal is 'stock configuration'. However, the following three micro-fiche illustrations, the RD500 Service Videos posted by Yamaha Motor Co. LTD., the early release photographs of the 500 dismantled for press photos prior to and just after release. All show the seal being installed rubber side out.

Per the conclusion of assumption that the oil is forced is a misconception. The oil is washed out of suspension in the fuel/air transfer and temporarily adhered to the primary internals until washed further by each pulse of the intake cycle, thus making it's way through out the engine. Since the bearings are not in the middle of these pulses, oil is not forced into them via the intake pulse. Rather, the distribution of wash effect is carrying the oil throughout the bottom end as a wash. There is even some consideration that there may also be a low pressure effect that each bearing produces at RPM actually pulling oil into itself.

RZV500


RD500LC (47X)


RD500LC (IGE)


RD500 Service Video #6 see 2:47 for the seal in the rubber side out position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... GpvVtONB9U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Early Press Release Photgraph
http://www.rd350lc.net/RD500LCengineV.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As a rule I always install the blind seal rubber side out and on the other seal Wolfgang gave the example of those always go with the notches in or numbers side out.

Regards,
Bill Wilson
Wilson Performance
Lee's Summit, MO
http://www.wilsonperformance.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
816-377-3185
WVWRZ500N@aol.com

[smurf 1]

I agree with Bill I've always fitted the blind seal rubber side out & never had any prob's with any engines built as for the crank seal I've see them fiited both ways so it might not make any difference which way it is fitted

[Rick Lance]

Your documentation gives you valid reason to install the way you choose to do. My method is based on the observed orientation of the cap on motors where I have been the first one in. I wonder if there are any original motors out there in the hands of club members that can be checked for the cap orientation. It just takes a minute to pop the plastic cover and take a look.

[WVWRZ500N]

Your documentation gives you valid reason to install the way you choose to do. My method is based on the observed orientation of the cap on motors where I have been the first one in. I wonder if there are any original motors out there in the hands of club members that can be checked for the cap orientation. It just takes a minute to pop the plastic cover and take a look.

Rick,

That would be an interesting survey indeed.

Regards,
Bill Wilson
Wilson Performance
Lee's Summit, MO
http://www.wilsonperformance.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
816-377-3185
WVWRZ500N@aol.com

[BRIAN TURFREY]

Got one,,, Rubber side is looking real good from the outside Yep, Bill is right on the money with the "Seal,Deal".

[Andrew]

Is there any such thing as a crank rebuild 'kit' available. That includes all bearings and seals needed to overhaul both cranks? Or does anyone have a list of the parts required?

My last crank rebuild was way back, 199? something, and it was sent into Neels van Niekerk (SA) who's a great 2T man. In the last 10 years, the bike hasn't been used much, but I'd like to strip and paint the motor, and was thinking of refreshing both cranks while it was out the frame.

[bryanbengal]

Ive just priced up seals and gaskets and the blind seal is NLA, what the option for replacing, or just reuse the ones on engine?

Andrew, if you send me your email I can send you the exel sheet with all the parts on.

[rd84]

Is there any such thing as a crank rebuild 'kit' available. That includes all bearings and seals needed to overhaul both cranks? Or does anyone have a list of the parts required?

My last crank rebuild was way back, 199? something, and it was sent into Neels van Niekerk (SA) who's a great 2T man. In the last 10 years, the bike hasn't been used much, but I'd like to strip and paint the motor, and was thinking of refreshing both cranks while it was out the frame.

Hi Andrew,

I suppose much of the following will depend on your engineering skills.......

You're going to have to use the parts list that you can see in this thread above. However since you're in Leicestershire, UK you might consider the following for crank re-builds....... Harry Barlow at Leicester , SEP at Kegworth or PJ's at Wolverhampton.

SEP seem to have done an excellent job on my cranks - however I suppose only time will tell !!

You can also get a lot of the bits for the crank from Yambits (It seems like I keep advertising Yambits - I've no association with them it's just that I've used them for a lot of after-market RD500 parts and they've provided a good service with what seem to be quality parts)

You might find that Granby Yamaha will put you a kit of parts together - but I bet it's cheaper to go to one of the above firms and let them decide what parts are required ??

Cheers
Paul

[Andrew]

Paul

Thanks for the heads up. If you're happy with the work SEP did with your cranks, I'd be happy to use them as well.
I want to get the cranks out first, and depending on the condition of the bearings and seals, I'll decide what I want to do.

My bike's been dry stored for the last 4/5 years without being started but I've been turning the motor and gearbox over every couple of months, so it's the top crank I'm more worried about (I filled the gearbox to the brim with gearoil, and I've not had any lock-up when turning the motor over with the plugs out, so we'll see).
But the cases will have to be opened to check.
Seals, I think, will be a definite change, bearing condition... we'll see

[rd84]

Hi Andy,

If you decide to strip the engine.........

Bearings and seals aren't too expensive - aftermarket bearings should be Ok if they're a known brand - certainly a lot less money than the Yamaha ones - Judging by the time and difficulty taking my engine out of the frame and stripping it you might as well replace everything while the engine is in bits - it's a lot of work so you might as well get everything done to avoid doing it again in the near future. I think the seals are 'only' £20 each so not worth taking chances with ?

http://yambits.co.uk/advanced_search_re ... =2a&page=3
http://yambits.co.uk/advanced_search_re ... =2a&page=4

BTW SEP do stove enamelling - this gives a lovely silk black finish on the barrels and cases - seems quite a tough finish as well. They're not the quickest workers in the world - but they're not bad either - they just seem to do the job properly and it takes as long as it takes - they certainly didn't mess me around and the engine was only away a few weeks.

Cheers
Paul

[Andrew]

Paul

The bikes been off the road long enough for me not to worry too much if someone takes their time, but does a good job.
I'll definitely look them up at the time.
Thanks