RZ/RD 350 & Misc. 2-Stroke Tech BBS

Technical Forums for Two-Stroke Nuts
It is currently Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:00 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 96 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 251LC
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:33 am
Posts: 9627
Location: Sydney
For a while now, a couple of years at least, Ive harboured a two fold plan to build an interesting LC... the ethos being:

1, To use as many of the parts Ive got left over from other projects, ‘restoring rather than buying parts’.
2, It will be a 250...! Eeek... I know... Really? Yes....

It will not be a standard build, but have a few nice and modded features, this keeps it away from trying to build a perfect restoration and also means I can use some cut down and modified parts. It will probably have Japanese spec paint, but I’ll leave that decision for nearer the time...

Ok, I know youre dying to know... Why a 250?! Well the plan was to use the coveted 51L 250 top end on a YPVS bottom end in the LC frame; essentially to be a fast 250LC. The idea was to call it the “251LC”... Thereby getting the 51L info onto the side cover and perhaps peaking the interest of those who know these bikes. The beauty of the 51L 250 top end is the addition of the Boysen port. Its the only cylinder Yamaha made with this configuration and the 84 (japan only) and 85 (Aus and Japan) 250s really worked well with this cylinder and the new type of exhausts, a real step up from the old 29L. Sadly I expect it was too expensive to licence the technology for the whole range so no 350 ever got it. Kawasaki did the same thing with its KDX250SR models in the 90s, they were the same cylinder as the KX with the boysen undrilled. Yeah, you just know what we all did to those ;) The clever bit about the 51L engine is that its listed at 48bhp, and as such its smooth running and tractable. The LC 350 is actually 47bhp, less smooth (crank designed for a 250 not a 350) and has more of a powerband. Now of course the LC350 is no bad thing, we all love those but Im keen to find out what the same power in the later smaller capacity engine will be like in the same same frame. And I can always turn it into a 350 later if needed of course. :)

What clinched the deal is that I already had the top end from my F1, I already had a spare ypvs bottom end and a bunch of other LC parts that Id acquired over the years but the main stumbling block was as ever downunder; finding a frame. I bought a whole 250LC a while back but it was too rusty to use having been left outside for 10+ years. That bike did give me the rest of the parts, well those that werent too rusty or worn out to use, as you can see it wasn’t exactly ‘pretty’.

Image

The engine and frame were sold on and the tank on this bike is the one I cut open to show you how just because a PO says a bike holds fuel, doesn’t mean that its actually fuel or that its holding it. In fairness the PO probably didn’t know it wasn’t fuel, the cap was firmly stuck on and what was in it did ‘slosh’ about when it was shaken. I found when cutting it open that the water had seeped in through holes in the top metalwork... Eeek, a real mess.

Time is what you need when sourcing parts for projects like this and a few months back a good friend locally messaged me to say he’d located me a frame, he was looking harder than I was it seemed lol. Thanks mate! It was out in the countryside and he’d already bought the wheels and other parts from it. what was a bit scary was when asked for a photo he went outside and took this, at least it doesnt rain too much where he lived LOL

Image

We got it home and it turned out to be a 350 frame, something quite rare in Aus.

Image

Here it is stripped and keeping my 31k company in line waiting to be blasted and painted.

Image

Of course if these all came about together it would have been better to use the 350 frame on my 421 and the 250 frame I modded for that on this build but hey its all bit late for that with all the mods done to the 421s frame, such is life, some would argue that I only got the offer of the new frame as Id just finished the 421 frame mods. Lol!

So what’s happening with this all now? Well I have the paint to paint the frame, I just need to clean and blast it. I will do that at the same time as the 31k project’s frame of course as Ive got to get set up to do that work. The rest of the progress has been to go about my usual process of doing small subprojects and squirreling them away for an easy rebuild later. With that in mind I’ve refurbished a set of switches from a bunch that a mate sent me as he was throwing them out. I’ve also started to refurb a set of footpegs, they just need rubbers and pins which can still be had from Yamaha. Both those tasks follow the first rule of my plan for this bike’s build as you can buy both those sets of parts brand new still from Yamaha, yet Ive enough good parts and access to blasting and powdercoating rigs so if anyone can/should restore these I can. Naturally rebuilds are cheaper than buying new, but time taken can not be had back.

Ive also put a bunch of original LC parts in for zinc plating, some of which are for this project and I've cleaned up and polished the black plastics and repaired and painted the center stand and the rear subframe. I had already restored a 250 rear wheel for my resto LC and then found a 350, so Ive got that put aside for this bike and just need to do the same work on the spare front wheel I have... If you’ve read the other threads you know that Ive powdercoated a bunch of bits recently and while I was doing bits for other bikes I also did bits for this one, so things like indicator stalks, headlight ears and tie bars are already in the box. A friend of mine also supplied me some clocks which Ive cleaned up and restored along a bunch of other really nice parts (clock cover, headlight rim, rad cover). Ive also sorted the YPVS wiring setup from an old F2 loom and located a PV controller and servo, just need an 85 250 CDI, anyone? In fact while im on the scrounge, if anyone has any LC parts they know they wont use but could be restored then feel free to contact me. I would really like to buy as few new bits for this one... not cos im stingy, more that I want to prove what can be restored if you put your mind to it.

Ok, the bad news for those who like what’s happening here... This project will sit in the queue after the 31k, which is after the 421 and the resto LC, so don’t expect too much progress too soon. And no fun pics as yet, not much to see really...

_________________
My Projects:
Yamaha '85 RZ350 F1 & '83 RZ & RD Athena 421 LC & XT500 Supermoto & Honda MT250... See them all on www.2smoked.com

Like Watches? You will love www.PloProf.com & www.DeskDivers.com


Last edited by JonW on Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:59 am
Posts: 1973
Location: Hunter Valley,Australia
Woohoo another project in the works,another bike saved. Jon have you had any luck finding oem pv seals for 250?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:33 am
Posts: 9627
Location: Sydney
Thanks m8
Oh? I thought the 350 seals were the same?

_________________
My Projects:
Yamaha '85 RZ350 F1 & '83 RZ & RD Athena 421 LC & XT500 Supermoto & Honda MT250... See them all on www.2smoked.com

Like Watches? You will love www.PloProf.com & www.DeskDivers.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:59 am
Posts: 1973
Location: Hunter Valley,Australia
No 250 seals & o rings are smaller.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:33 am
Posts: 9627
Location: Sydney
Hmm, I didnt know that. :/

_________________
My Projects:
Yamaha '85 RZ350 F1 & '83 RZ & RD Athena 421 LC & XT500 Supermoto & Honda MT250... See them all on www.2smoked.com

Like Watches? You will love www.PloProf.com & www.DeskDivers.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:33 am
Posts: 9627
Location: Sydney
Ok, this peaked my interest as LB and I have talked about this before since we both know the holders are not the same on the 250 and 350. I checked part numbers and now have a definitive, so am posting this for anyone who comes along later:

The 250 and 350 uses the same PowerValve Castle seals, but the o rings are different as the PV holders are different sized between the engine sizes, see the pic below - the 250's holders are smaller outside diameter.

Image
(pic credit to my good mate LB)

_________________
My Projects:
Yamaha '85 RZ350 F1 & '83 RZ & RD Athena 421 LC & XT500 Supermoto & Honda MT250... See them all on www.2smoked.com

Like Watches? You will love www.PloProf.com & www.DeskDivers.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:59 am
Posts: 1973
Location: Hunter Valley,Australia
Yes i stand corrected lol.
250 = 32mm,350 = 35mm diameter.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:33 am
Posts: 9627
Location: Sydney
no worries, it forced me to break out the parts books and check, and now we know. Partzilla list both seals (93108-23010-00 @ $6.60) and o rings (93210-27370-00 @ $1.67) so even in the US '350 only' market we can still get some of our 250 bits :)

_________________
My Projects:
Yamaha '85 RZ350 F1 & '83 RZ & RD Athena 421 LC & XT500 Supermoto & Honda MT250... See them all on www.2smoked.com

Like Watches? You will love www.PloProf.com & www.DeskDivers.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:33 am
Posts: 9627
Location: Sydney
Some gentle cleaning, tidying up and looking for parts recently on this one as yet again Ive been taking the trip down the dusty road (seriously) to the platers. This time I will have all the parts I need for most of the rest of my projects... tho Ive thought that before of course... maybe I shouldnt look in any more boxes!?!? :)

Anyway, the bad news is that I found this:

Image

Hmm, makes you wonder....

_________________
My Projects:
Yamaha '85 RZ350 F1 & '83 RZ & RD Athena 421 LC & XT500 Supermoto & Honda MT250... See them all on www.2smoked.com

Like Watches? You will love www.PloProf.com & www.DeskDivers.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:33 am
Posts: 9627
Location: Sydney
I decided ages back that I wanted to do a bike with a clutch window. Yeah, I know its been done before... I know they get condensation in them ...and I realise that in all seriousness that this mod is really just a bit passé these days... but I have the lexan and seals already I just needed to get busy on a clutch cover. The problem with that is that on most of my builds Ive used brand new OEM banshee covers as the ones on my bikes were usually pretty rashed and no way was I attacking a brand new part with files and drills LOL

With my huge push to locate parts for plating and the recent build of the LC resto bike’s motor I’ve been going though my boxes of spare parts that anyone in their sane mind would have chucked out years ago. I decided that pretty much the stuff in those boxes that I deemed ‘marginal’ was either going to get restored/repurposed or put in the bin. During that search I pulled out 3 clutch covers, all RZ. One I couldn’t get the waterpump screws out and in the end had to drill them to reclaim the plate and impeller but as the cover had some deep gouges and lots of other damage in it I threw it in the trash... It had lived a long and by the looks of it, nightmareish life, RIP cover! Anyway, the throwing out was very liberating! LOL

That left me with two used covers, both damaged by a bike laying over. One was light damage and I managed to dress it out with a file and finished it up on a linisher, it looked ok and will be powdercoated later. Next up the other one was pretty nasty. The deep gouges were almost through the case and it was pretty much scrap as it had been left outside with the upper part’s paint removed so had oxidised. Someone at a wrecker had used their yellow pen to write ‘spares’ on it. They were dreaming. Anyway, I love a challenge so removed the rest of the paint and had my mate (Thanks Nick!) weld it up.

Image


With a dress back with a flat file it looked much better and I figured this was the one that would be the ‘window’ version. I will linish the file marks out later of course.

Image


Out with the drill:

Image


Then a bunch of work with the files and a tidy up with a dremel sanding roll.

Image



This will now be blasted and powdered along with the other cover. So, Ive done what I said I’d do with these trashed and horrible oily and greasy parts that Ive stored for nigh on 10 years. Phew!

_________________
My Projects:
Yamaha '85 RZ350 F1 & '83 RZ & RD Athena 421 LC & XT500 Supermoto & Honda MT250... See them all on www.2smoked.com

Like Watches? You will love www.PloProf.com & www.DeskDivers.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:44 pm
Posts: 2809
Location: Alberta, Canada
Jon, did you know that the LC and the RZ clutch covers are one and the same?

I have just cut the wall off of one of mine, that surrounds the oil pump. I'm going to weld up the pump and kick start cluster holes for a track engine. Premix and bump start, like a TZ.

_________________
Rory


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:33 am
Posts: 9627
Location: Sydney
Er, Rory, theyre not the same... they fit, but not the same... they use a different oil pump cover.

The 'shee uses a small cover plate and the oil pump gasket, I used that to blank off for premix on my 421 when I first built it, Im running one of Arrows pumps now tho.

_________________
My Projects:
Yamaha '85 RZ350 F1 & '83 RZ & RD Athena 421 LC & XT500 Supermoto & Honda MT250... See them all on www.2smoked.com

Like Watches? You will love www.PloProf.com & www.DeskDivers.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:44 pm
Posts: 2809
Location: Alberta, Canada
Oops, my bad. I'll have to see what mine is. Thinking it's LC. It's ok, as I have 4 engines.

_________________
Rory


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:33 am
Posts: 9627
Location: Sydney
easy to tell if theyre off the motor, they sat 4L0 or 29L inside. ;)

_________________
My Projects:
Yamaha '85 RZ350 F1 & '83 RZ & RD Athena 421 LC & XT500 Supermoto & Honda MT250... See them all on www.2smoked.com

Like Watches? You will love www.PloProf.com & www.DeskDivers.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 251LC
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:44 pm
Posts: 2809
Location: Alberta, Canada
This one went down hard and has been welded up. I think it's LC, but not sure. I'll check it tomorrow.

_________________
Rory


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 96 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group