New LC project.... Restoration... I know, I know...

[hondaror]

Looks good!

[JonW]

Thanks mate!

Oh and you may have noticed that i reused the green coated nuts and washers on the front which helps a bit to keep em looking more original lol

[JonW]

Pipes.... Im exhausted... Terrible pun, but you’ll get the idea...

Obviosuly with this being a restoration it needs to have original pipes... Not ideal in a country that uses all vehicles beyond any use by date, and made worse by the fact my bike will be a 350, and most of the bikes sold here were 250s.... So I had my work cut out... Luckily, I like a challenge as you know :)

Regular readers may remember this next story - When I bought the parts for my LC421 it originally was advertised with a set of pipes... I didn’t get them as the PO decided to use them on a project in the 24 hours it took me to drive up and get the bike. Hmmm, yeah... This kinda sucked as I wanted them and he didn’t discount the price of the sale. More hmm... After the initial sale agreement, subsequent non sale 24hours later and then with the next sale back on the next day I was a bit ragged so I just hopped in the car drove the 1.5hrs up there and took what he let me have and ran... Sigh.

The postscript is that later he sold off his project in bits as he didn’t want to get a road worthy certificate and offered me the engine with pipes and carbs, I immediately suggested he return ‘my pipes’ instead. He did actually comply and a friend of a friend picked them up and brought them here next time he was passing, saving me the journey, phew! They were pretty beat up 250 units but better than nothing, the RH pipe was badly damaged from an accident or two, but the left was better, not great, but better... Both had plates welded in where the section after the downpipes joins the body and many dents... Typical Aussie LC pipes really...

So thinking I wouldnt be able to improve on these much I figured that was a part-set in the bag and all I needed was a better RH pipe... Er, yeah... That’s the hard one to get as our roundabouts swing to the right and anyone worth their salt will always hone their cornering prowess on a roundabout. Until they shout 'Bugger....!'

I also found out that I didn’t necessarily need 350 pipes, you can cut 250 ones open and drill the 4 extra holes and you’ve done the same job yamaha did. Sure, they don’t have the coveted ‘0’ stamped in the hanger, but they would do the job. I could even invest in a 0 punch of course...

So I kept my eyes peeled and waited....

Recently a localish guy sold off a set of LC pipes on ebay, I won them for sensible money and zipped over and collected them. They turned out to be genuine 350s and again the RH pipe was accident damaged, this time the left one had a plate welded where the header met the first cone but the rear end was pretty good.

...but the other 250 pipes have a better header on that side and its the same pipe at that point...

So yes, you guessed it... I started to think;
1, no one is going to have a nice set of pipes for sale, and if they do I cant afford them
2, If I can collect enough knackered pipes I could cut n shut a decent pipe from the mess...

... I kept looking... This time I broadened my search for part pipes with good ends in the hope of finding a RH cone and/or body so I could build up a decent RH pipe.

Placing a WTB ad for something else got me into a chat to a friend in another state (well technically he’s in a Territory, but I digress) which netted gold when he suggested that he had a set of pipes he would let go that belonged to a friend who raced them, so since I was heading down that way for the weekend I dropped in and collected those too. They are both damaged, and 250 but my parts gathering was making progress, the headers on these were really good and interestingly it was the LH pipe on these that had the most damage... I reckon that’s the difference with road and race, on the road you get lots of round abouts that you need to turn right to navigate, so we get used to the fact that turning right is fun, left not so much. On the road you crash more trying to get your knee down on all those roundabouts, but when you race, all corners are equal.
NB: naturally this is for UK and Aus where we drive on the left, plus Americans don’t really have roundabouts like we do. When I lived in the UK I used to take the guys who came over from the states to Swindon’s Magic Roundabout and watch their reaction, it was usually pure fear :D

Next up I emailed a local chap who I knew had some LCs over the years and asked if he could help and he offered me a RH pipe. Its true that it’s who not what you know as ever... Last week I picked it up, its another 350 unit and while it did have some road rash and was covered in dirt, its the best of what Ive got.

Ok... I agree, this plan fo gathering and cutting and shutting isnt ideal, but the more pipes Ive collected the less work Ive found I needed to do to each one. So while it’s a bit of a mixed bag, I'm hopeful I can work out a decent set from this lot with minimal work to keep them as original as possible...

So this week I pulled out the ‘new to me’ 350 RH pipe and started work, Ive cleaned all the mud and 3 layers of paint and rust off with a wire wheel and filled the damage with JB weld. Sanded and refilled and I think Im making progress. In fact the whole JB Weld thing looks like its working quite well, it sands to a feathered edge and you can recreate the contours of the flattened parts, or just fill in the scratches, either way its not looking too bad. Of course JB Weld probably wont like the temps at the headers, but down the back where it's not so hot I reckon it will work ok.

Ive also covered the steel with a rust eater and am searching out a paint for these as I cant have them ceramic coated as the idiot who does that here will blast off all my JB weld and probably put holes in them, he seems to use maximum pressure when doing all his work. Anyway, current fave paint idea is to grab some KBS Xtreme Temp Coating in Satin black and give that a whirl, its certainly got the specs to do what I need, and I guess I would spray it... So looks like I will need to borrow my mates spray gun soon... :)

[seahorse]

Jesus that was a read John boy.
I have had many set of 250 and 350 pipes hanging in my shed over the years.
From my measurements the 350 cigars on the RZ are very different to the 250. Bigger diameter at the end is a dead give away.
Not sure about the LC bus suspect the same difference in end pipe measurement.
But that's all beside the point you are well on your way to sorting your pipes.
I was going to suggest Import Monster has a lot of standard pipes in pretty good nick for future projects.
Keep up the great work and interesting blurbs, your always a good read.

[JonW]

Thanks for the kind words Rich! Actually the LC pipes are exactly the same between the 250 and 350. The only difference is that the 250 pipes have four holes in the restriction plate where the 350 has 8. For those looking for said plate, I'm told that plate is about 7.5 inches from the bottom of the first cone measuring from the back.

One thing I would say is that all LC pipes seem to have the same part numbers, there was rumoured to be some 4L1 pipes, but in all my collecting and looking at pipes Ive not seen any, all are 4L0 part numbers. I do wonder if the early pipes without the strengthed flange also came in a 4L1 part number, and maybe when they rushed the fixed units into production they didnt bother to keep the old 250 units separate hence the '0' mark... and aparently a paint dab that will be long done on your bike, trust me on that one, youre are bound to have been repainted by now... LOL! Actually in Aus we never got the older 'crackable' pipes, the LCs were launched here later and I'm told that we only have the reworked units in country.

Also interesting is that people have asked me if I think they have 350 pipes as they are hoping they do. Put it this way, if youve looked on the hanger and havent seen a well defined '0' stamped, then you dont have 350 pipes. you cant mistake the '0' for a spot weld, all the ones Ive seen have good definition. So if you think you might have 350 pipes, you dont. You will clearly see the mark. Sorry...

Our very own Arrow told me that he used 250 pipes on his 350 when he first got it and that they were fine, the low and mid range actually were improved and that it was only just a little down on the top end power, but there were no other issues with using them. His comments back up the small difference with the holes of course.

From what youve said I guess the RZ cigars are quite different, Ive only ever had 350s (85s for my F1) so never compared to the 250 (83/4 in Aus only) cigar. The 85-on the 250 pipes were reworked and at the time it was accepted that they were a huge improvement, probably cos they were coupled with the boysen ports of the 51L cyls of course, but even the contempaory mags felt that the 250 market was being seen by Yam as the growth area (gotta keep ahead of the pesky fast competition like RGs etc) and perhaps the company felt the 350 had enough power by then anyway.

Of course we are digressing... back to LC pipes soon with pics I hope :)

[Zedixe13]

Found this pic on the web .

[JonW]

Those are 31k, tho they do look similar they are quite different really. The innards is similar of course, but not the same.

Also which 31k pipe is that I wonder, I expect 350, but Rich says the 250 is quite different... maybe those are marked 29L, I dont know tho, as I said I dont have any of those here...

FWIW I'm amsued by the terrible English on that pic and he's doing some kind of rework that to me makes no sense...

[JonW]

There are a bunch of LC pipe 'innards' pics on this thread where I asked about cutting mine up to make 350s:

http://rdlccrazy.proboards.com/thread/2 ... pes-on-350" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[seahorse]

The end pipe cigar OD comparison RZ 250 Just over 50 mm, 350 just under 58 mm.

The RZ cigars that I cut open had a complicated baffle with two 13 mm id pipes located in the short cone section that centre stand stop is welded to.

I think there were several different cigar designs and stampings.

All I know that the 31 K stamped big end 350 cigars worked very well and were dynod years ago against a few reputable makers, they both held their own, and took some scalps.

[JonW]

All I know that the 31 K stamped big end 350 cigars worked very well and were dynod years ago against a few reputable makers, they both held their own, and took some scalps.

The LC pipes were the same, it was actually quite hard for the aftermarket to beat the OEM LC pipes when dyno'd, but of course no one in the 80s had a dyno it seems, or if they did they didnt spend time testing pipes so that info wasnt available, instead we all just bought into the hype that something like an Allspeed or Micron was faster cos it was noisier... and while they did sound a lot nicer, in reality just cutting down the baffle in the LC pipes could 'bring the noise' in a similar-and-only-slighty-muted fashion... that meant the only thing that marked these pipes out as bad for performance was their weight, and wow do they weigh... like a pair of boat anchors! LOL!

Anyway, I decided I was trying to keep this bike original, so that meant original pipes... Yes, I did make it hard for myself, espeiclaly on a budget as Ive so many projects to play with and very little cash, but that's one of the ways we keep this stuff fun I reckon

[JonW]

Ok a couple of pics of the skim of JB Weld...





coming soon, pics of it sanded of course...

[hondaror]

Yamaha spent millions on pipe development back in the 60s. That's why those things work so well. That's what made Yamaha so good racing the two strokes in the 60s and 70s.

[JonW]

Cool, didnt know that. Just wish they werent in the line of fire everytime the bike tips over, but of course if youre Yamaha and spent millions on pipe design, clawing some of that back each time people change them out after spills would help LOL!

[Amboyy]

Hilarious, the crow we eat after making declarative statements in our "yout".

Will be following this with avid interest as a stocker LC is not at all common and brings about tears of romantic reverie.

Steve

[JonW]

:D