Ignition timing on stroker.

[InjectedRD400]

Hi all,

Am wondering if it is advisable to just add a +4 advance on a stroker? Isn't the timing already advance throughout the stroke?

[slinger]

That depends on a few different things, you can mod the stater plate and still achieve good results.

But quality of fuel been used along with the comp ratio will have a major factor as well.

If you have a programmable ignition unit then this would be your best option as you can improve the mid range and a few more pony's up top. But time spent on the power valve setting can really smooth out the power curve and give gains in the mid range of the curve.

I'll stick my neck on the line here and say the PV setting will give you more usable gains than ignition, but as always it's best to optimise both.

[Picobello]

Buy a Zeeltronic ignition and you can alter both ignition timing/advancing and powervalve .....

[KennyBarroz]

Buy a Zeeltronic ignition and you can alter both ignition timing/advancing and powervalve .....

Is there any guide on how to modify the timing curve etc?
or is there a good description somewhere what the advantages are with the Zeeltronic?

I feel kind of lost when i see pictures of people buying the zeel ignition, would be great with a guide or something

[aaronmvrider]

its really quite simple... it comes with a suggested range of settings and if you dont stray too far you will feel results

plus its an instant change... if dyno time is there to check settings for readings

really nice bit of gear

[Picobello]

Here you find the manual:

http://www.zeeltronic.com/manuals/manua ... 201008.pdf

and the wiring diagram:

http://www.zeeltronic.com/manuals/RZ_wi ... DI-10V.pdf

maybe this will help you.

[InjectedRD400]

That's part of the reason I asked. I am not certain exactly how to go about making a change and testing the results. I was thinking if I can get something pretty decent on my stroker with just doing the +4 mod then I would sell my Zeel and put that money towards my TSS crank.

I am not certain about being able to rent a dyno for an hour so I wonder if I will be able to use the zeel to its max benefit without a tuning session.

Aaron, can you elaborate on what kind of change you would make then feel the difference?

[cdub]

Hi all,

Am wondering if it is advisable to just add a +4 advance on a stroker? Isn't the timing already advance throughout the stroke?

you have the right idea,instead of thinking of your timing in degrees you must think of your timing in distance.from the time your plug fires to TDC,you will quickly learn like you say +4 degrees on a stock crank will be different then +4 degrees on a longer stroke crank.The only thing with turning your stator is you advance or retard the timing across the entire ignition curve,this is were the Zeel comes in you can program your own curves

[aaronmvrider]

more advance earlier in the bottom end rev range 2k - 4k

a flatter mid range plateau across the top of mid range 4k - 6k

tail off the advance later and quicker on the top end 6k - 9k

from 9k onwards i ran it at 9 degrees as per standard curve

basically it just follows around the outer edges of a standard curve giving better bottom end and fatter mid range and a safe top end where its screaming its head off and the ability for 10 marked points for the ignition curve

and power valves also according to where you want to have some more bottom end etc... the dual map switch i havent even bothered setting it up yet, but i have heard of settings for a curve for twisty corners and a curve for top end... i am busy enough on the bike to worry about that just at the moment


rev limiter, shift light and electric tacho are also features on the zeel.... keep the zeel and save up for the crank.... you are just going to loose money on the sale of the zeel anyways

i can post my ignition settings if you like..... what engine are you going to be stroking...

[InjectedRD400]

Great info Aaron.

It's a 1UA motor that I am going to add a +4 115mm crank to it with 795 pistons. Would love to see ignition and pv curves.

[cookie]

Yeah, I'd like to see that too. That's the same thing I'm building.

[ghezzi]

AAron, I'll be getting the race version of the ignitec ignition with a heavy standard type flywheel on my TSS. The 2nd map I will programme for my wet weather safety as well as other pilots who only have 4T linear power experience. Softer performance, more progressive power band with early rev limiter/retard.

The other stator comes with 18 lighting coils, no CDI coils as ignitec is designed as a 12v unit suited to total loss set up. Heavy flywheel aids smoother/lower idle which helps riding in slow traffic, hot weather runs cooler etc.

The 100mm fly weight flywheel on a 500 ends up with a 2500rpm idle, ideal for a race bike but not good for the road.

[aaronmvrider]

just dug out my info...my current settings for my 4mm stroker with 115mm rods
squish is 0.86mm.... no responsibility taken for your piston or engine

please understand that these are my settings.. my rev limiter set at 10500

2k-17 deg
3.5k-26 deg
4.5k-28 deg
5.5k-28 deg
6.5k-26 deg
7k-25 deg
8k- 21 deg
9k-17 deg
9.5k- 14 deg
10k- 9 deg

power valve settings
6k- 0%
7k- 50%
7.8k- 80 %
8.3k- 100%

hope it gives you a starting point as these are close to a starting point i was given from Slinger.. cheers

[InjectedRD400]

Thanks Aaron.

And just to be clear you are running a 115mm rod, a 5mm spacer plate on the base and pistons with the regular pin location? (in my head the advance gained by the 115mm rod is canceled out by the 5mm spacer but I could be very wrong)

I really like the idea of a second curve for rain. Cold wet tires are scary and if I remember correctly a hopped up RZ can be difficult to ride super smoothly in first or second.

So tell us Aaron, when you would make a change and test it how would you go about it? Add 1 degree at a certain rpm range and then do a seat of the pants test? Was there a point where you knew extra advance gained nothing? If you were running EGT gauges did you notice any change in them as you changed the curve?

[aaronmvrider]

i ran the first curve given to me but just backed it off slightly... for safety.. i am not chasing the last few horsepower numbers out of my little darling
when i drew it on a graph to see what was going on compared to a standard curve it looked aggressively advanced in certain areas

i am running 115 rods with a spacer that has been machined to correct port timing numbers.....nothing to do with advance... i ended up with 198 and 131 from memory

i ended up with a positive piston hieght and reprofiled the head domes and recessed further into the head... i have not done a compression test as i dont have the equipment... next purchase will be a guage..... reliability it starts first time cold or hot... v force reeds are the next added performance part.... i was running a different needle at one stage from a rz250... it was more tapered and thinner allowing more bottom end ??? i may try them when / if the dyno time comes around

no EGT guages here... or dyno time just out having a spin and when it wheelstands under power everytime without the need of the clutch i was both happy and surprised the lomas pipes sing but the stroker gives a deeper engine note on the bottom end and i run a 2 into 1 pod filter which creates a deep induction roar... it sure does turn heads

love it to bits... currently my 500 is off the road.. new cranks on the way... love it to bits too