RZ350 reed cage options?

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GP_RZ
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RZ350 reed cage options?

#1 Post by GP_RZ » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:26 pm

I am rebuilding one of my RZ350 motors and was wondering if there is any benifit to run different cages and reeds? I was looking into buying a set of Vitos billet cages and reeds, but I reed you have to grind out your jugs to accept them? But vforce 4 reeds and cages have the same part # for banshee and RZ350? so will banshee cages fit my RZ jugs? I am going to run pwk28 carbs with 66mm slugs and mild port.

cheers and thanks

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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#2 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:26 am

Your good with V force 4 reeds. Your just not going to easily find a better performing reed setup.
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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#3 Post by GP_RZ » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:48 pm

Thanks , yeah I am leaning toward v4's

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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#4 Post by Bare » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:40 pm

OEM Yamaha Banshee F'glass reeds.. work... period.
Great for midrange and Good overall running. Not all reeds assemblies can claim that.. honestly.
Really cheap as bonus.

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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#5 Post by RZtuner » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:26 pm

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the stock RZ steel reeds.Never had one fail. They have the same cage area and flow rate as a TZ750 grand prix bike! Banshee figlass reeds are designed for mid-range performance, too soft for top end performance. I tried some stiffer carbon reeds in my land speed bike and they shredded after just one sustained high speed run! Yes, only lasted one run!!! ... so I always run the stock steel reeds........ Everyone tries to out think the factory, when the engineers got it right in the first place.

You can test your reed valves by blowing into them. If they make a loud honking noise like a duck call, they are good. Be careful with new OEM stuff from Yamaha.(probably made in China) I recently ordered a pair of OEM reed blocks and when they arrived you could actually see 0.5mm gap between the reed and the cage. They did not seal worth a damn, no noise when you blow through them. Just junk! So my advise is stay with the stock made in Japan reeds.
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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#6 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:18 pm

Just sayin, nothing wrong with stock steel reeds, however my 30+ years RZ/Banshee experience and dyno proven results are that TDR fiberglass reeds and 4 force 3s or 4s reeds , definitively add power. The V 4s have much more capacity, and they work so well with factory 26 mm carbs it's almost too good to be true. The velocity of stock carbs is impressive, and makes fir a fun ride. Larger carbs benefit as well, but directed more to top end power.
Reed failure is relatively rare in steel,fiberglass or carbon reeds. But as posted above anything can happen at any given time.
But just be aware, VF4s will outperform virtually any of the standard RZ reed options, even Tony Doukas of TDR has posted this as Dyno fact vs his designs.
Frankly...just like pipes you can run any version you desire. Different combos deliver different results...but there all adequate.
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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#7 Post by RZtuner » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:55 pm

VF4's came on the market a few years back with a lot of fanfare and dyno claims,..... so I took the hook and bought a set to try out and ran them on a race bike. They performed well, good mid-range, the only difference that I found compared to a stock reed was they were 1 mph slower when tested on the Great White Dyno, 3 miles at WOT running stock carbs and pipes. So.... I went back to the stock reeds and promptly sold the VF4's and put the $200 back in my wallet. As I like to say "the bullshit stops at Bonneville".

I base all of my comments on 40+ years of racing LC's, RZ's, TZ's and Gamma's and proven race winning results. Anyone can tune a bike for a flash horsepower figure on a dyno but real world performance is much different. VF4's are a nice quality reed, but don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Now can someone tell me what this smilie is?? [smilie=av-2042.gif]
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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#8 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:18 pm

Just saying, as we definitely know, You cannot compare a top speed focused bike for dry lake venues to street bikes or race bikes, or neither roadrace or MX, drag to Trail. As far as high performance builds go.
Each requires a different often specific tune, if wanting to run the machine toward maximum potential.
Hmmmm.. How can I say this? ..lol :smt003 :smt002 unequivocally, without a doubt no question whatsoever Boyseen,TDR and V force reeds make noticable increases on my bikes, all of them. From seat of the pants to dragracin/trackdays to the Dyno all results back up each other. (In my case) It's not even open for debate. My bikes are faster and more responsive w aftermarket reeds, always have been.
Regarding Tassarios claim of H.P. increases on V force on the V Force 4s the available intake area is pretty impressive vs stock or previous designs,(In my case) and all my friends projects they simply work and do as they claim.
No question many companies can tune a Dyno run for maximum h.p. numbers , but News flash to all reading... Nothing we don't know..That's NO WAY to Dyno tune a bike!!!..a highly tuned 2 -stroke if tuned to such a manner , likley won't last long.
My Banshee and RZs and friends bikes running sftermarket reeds some such as mine we're/are jetted slightly conservatively ( rich ) I'm a believer that oil is my friend... MY Banshee is tuned quite well I'd guess approaching maximum results but set up a lil rich for safety so I do lose some potentisl
power, but it still requires rejetting from sea level to where I live at 3000' due to altltutude and temp due to my build.
It is what it is if you want it to run approaching it's potential, I've 19cc domes on a aggressive MX port and reasonably high compression and run VP112 race fuel only.
Case & point, land speed runs on a 2 stroke race bike... absolutely requires different jetting almost every run and often throughout the day...it's tuned to a (very specific narrow focused RPM ) range..top end! Is what it is.

But I (me being me) would just not say that they do not work based upon one format of racing that requires such specific jetting and constant temp control...IMO since he had a failre of the reeds, there was a defect or damage prior, likley the case as I've really never heard of nor experienced reed failure (On good condition reeds). personally nor from the many 2 stroke enthusiasts I've known....like never..ever?

I think it's safe to say , that afternarket reeds generally outperform stock under most all conditions. And many are NOT just bolt in, there can be adjustments it as Tony from TDR will sell specific reeds with different tensions for different applications
But as the previous member has experienced...there are those rare occasions duch as he experienced where bad luck, shows her face... Again iswhat it is...shit happens..no matter who you are, or what you've done that's all of us. Just be aware, things are not often (bolt on)..how you can determine 1 mph in top speed runs considering the constant variables and the other factoring in apparent fact of damaged reeds..kinda stretching it a little..but glad people have the option to be able to go back to stock as a solution to a problem...it's all good.
best if luck to all! :smt023
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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#9 Post by RZtuner » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:01 pm

Unfortunately you are choosing to define my LSR proddy bike as a very specific, narrowly focussed power band with a focus solely on top speed, with absolutely zero knowledge about what my bike actually runs like! It's just your assumption! Nothing could be further from the truth. I regularly ride this bike on the street down to the local coffee bar! Take it to bike events etc. It's totally tractable from idle to redline and is an absolute blast to ride on the street, the perfect sunday morning ride.. Ya gotta love these little bikes.

My take on VF4 reeds is they don't offer any performance advantage. I tried them, I tested them, and in my opinion they are a waste of money. I bought them, I tested them, I sold them. My opinion is based on factual timing slip results. You seem totally convinced by your "seat of the pants" dyno and a salesmans dyno claims. You are quite welcome to your own opinion, and I have no doubt you are extremely happy with your aftermarket reeds that outperform everything else. Keep thinking that if it makes you happy, but trying to rub other peoples noses in it, that have a different opinion.... not very nice. I don't think we will ever agree so why don't we just leave it at that. Readers can make up their own mind.
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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#10 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:09 pm

Oops, No intentions of creating animosity here on the forum, perhaps we misunderstood each other's posts to a degree. If so.. I'm sorry if you feel that way, but that's your individual opinion based upon your individual results. And that's totally your poragative to claim.
Please accept that they work for me and 1000s of others, and Its easy to accept they did not work for you as you wanted them too. It's all good. :smt023

Seriously..look at it from others viewpoints, what other conclusion could possibly be made,when one installs perfornance reeds on a bike/kart etc..and the result is that the machine is:
1.) Faster in races..than before.
2.) More responsive.
3.) Dyno results that show increases.
4.) Bike (noticably) feels faster. Yes "Butt Dyno",
Butt dyno...It's the same as when you clean up a rich spot in carburation and the bike IS smoother and faster...it's safe to claim ...it's better..You just know sometime when something is working.. Just sayin :smt006

I was interpreting you post to read as: According to (you) 1 individual on a forum, Myself and others are supposed to accept your results over our results ?
Not only that your that hundreds of 1000s of customers who have added various brands of reeds to their machines over the decades, and likley 1000s of V force 3 and 4 customers like myself whom have (proven) results from Dynos with them? Have somehow been duped by false claim advertising.

That's how I read your reply, Apologize if I misinterpreted it.

In my reply, I stated that my results eith TDR and V Force we're derived from Dyno,races and feel. All 3. So there has been no guessing, at least from me.
Reed's added h.p. tested and tuned on a Dyno during tuning, same for my diffrent exhuasts and carburator and dome selections..I'm as methodical as I can afford to be. I'm just a working guy
I don't put (anything) on and leave it that way unless it 100 % gives me results.
In addition I did mentioned that adding reeds is a change that has proven itself in races and (unquestionably) a noticable "seat o' the pants) in response, crispness and acceleration.

I just feel it takes more than one person's result, to base a claim. Especially since you stated you had undisputed reed failure after a single attempt with them. Leads me to think there may have been a unknown problem or defect..Shit... if it can happen to NASA engineers , it can surley happen to us bike guys.

Again, It's all good. We've all been there n done that with various things... Please post info on your bikes and endevors, would be nice to follow here!
Great day!
Banshee (Baja) race bike,+ 2 A Arms,L.E.Ds, Toomey, +4 stroker IMS tank, run flats.
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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#11 Post by RZtuner » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:15 pm

First off it was a set of aftermarket carbon reed petals that failed on the first run, not the VF4,.... they just under performed. I'm not asking you or anybody else to accept what I say, it's just my opinion based on actual numbers obtained on a dyno or under race conditions. I post this info for people to consider. Totally your choice if you choose to disagree. If you and 1000's of others are happy with VF4's then just great. Go ahead and buy them. I'm quite happy not to follow the herd, and at the end of the day I know it's my bikes in the record books.

A long time ago I had a long chat with Dave Degens an ace Triumph tuner who won the 24hr B'Ol d'or race in France beating all the factory teams on his privateer Triton. Dave used to hang out with the factory Triumph team who said "Ya gotta fit S&W valve springs". Dave asked a simple question, Why? Their response was "because all the guys in the US fit them, they are the latest big deal for Triumphs". In reality, the S&W springs were too stiff and thick and limited rpm. Daves bike with stock springs would happily rev to 8 grand before valve float set in....so he ran the stock springs and promptly cleaned their clocks! I never forgot that lesson from a sage old tuner. You can learn a lot from these old guys.

When I was racing Gammas a UK company sent me the latest and greatest programmable ignition. You could adjust the advance plus or minus 5 degrees. Very trick. The first of it's kind back then. Tried it back to back against the stock CDI on the dyno, tried all the adjustments and best it would do was down 3 horsepower on the stock cdi. Put the stock cdi back on. Then I picked up 6 horse by changing the plug heat range!! $10 for plugs vs a $350 ignition that did not perform. Make your choice! Ran the bike with the stock cdi and went 162mph best speed. Record still stands 20 years later.

I signed a factory contract to race a Buell white lightning. Their mechanic was all keen to try all the aftermarket Screaming Eagle cams and ignition on the race bike. Found zero, yes zero performance gains so we put it all back to stock and put 6 mph on the record. Took me 3 runs to dial in the jetting and we had it! People who buy that stuff are wasting their money, but they all walk out of the dealership with a smile on their face! and everyone is happy.

So you see, many times this aftermarket stuff is not what its cracked up to be. There is a standing joke at my friends shop with kids who buy a new Gixxer, immediately put a pipe on it and lose 5 hp. My friend sponsors a rider that took all 4 championships on the west coast last year.... and it's all 100% stock. Again, an old guy who knows his stuff sets up the bike, time spent adjusting suspension settings and that about it. Fast and reliable.

In my world I like to keep an open mind with aftermarket offerings that make big claims. I make my decisions only after thorough testing and evaluation.Mostly I tend to stick with OEM stuff. It's a process that has been quite rewarding over the years.

Thought for the day:
Ancient Chinese proverb : a closed mind is like a closed book
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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#12 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:11 pm

Sounds like we're the same after all regarding not using stuff that don't work! I'm sure others here are the same..Work Smarter... Not harder!
Manufacture's claims can often be a little on the tall tale scale. I don't see it in motorcycle stuff nearly as much as automobile, when I was a kid I had a 88 5.0 mustang with Paxton 5lb blower on it along with every bolt on you could buy, according to all the manufacturer claims it should have made 380 h.p....lol NO WAY...lol..it delivered a solid 290 RWH & 345 lbs tq. quick for it's day with bone stock internals ,had roller rockers, on stock heads and a cam .
Definatley good things can be said regarding many OEM parts especially electrical (Made in Japan) at least...lol
There was a RD 400 racer (C. Whitehouse)@ Willow Springs, one if his his RDs ran bone (Stock toroedo Pipes) beaten flat w a hammer for ground cearance, he raced on small track and won most races, with good riders it's generally less the machine , put a great rider in the slowest bike on the grid and you often have a contender.
If I recall ? His full RD roadrace bike, lapped the big track in 1:28..that's just flying for a 400cc air-cooled bike.
I'm right there with you on your diligent set up, It's just good practice! Within reason I generally could care less about participating in racing competitions or records, but drag racing has always been a vice and addictive, like theysay
the ( buck stops there! ). Like alot of us
here on this site..i just want my machines to be the best I can do " within my means" it's a lifelong underdog attitude , do the same or more with... less. When it works...it's beyond rewarding..to watch a smack talking high roller primadonna suffering and stew in a loss.
It's pticeless :smt003
Banshee (Baja) race bike,+ 2 A Arms,L.E.Ds, Toomey, +4 stroker IMS tank, run flats.
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura rep.
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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#13 Post by jerele » Sat May 20, 2023 2:14 pm

You were right, RZ tuner.
Today we finished second in a race at the Jerez circuit with our RD 350 YPVS 1987. A damn Honda CBR 400R beat us. Ignition OEM, reeds oem, ypvs oem, BR 8 ES, TMX 30 and TPR pipe exhaust. 11k and 52 HP. Limited engine to achieve reliability. 15 seconds ahead of third place, another RD 350. Thank you very much RZtuner, you are the best, you are a good man.
Last edited by jerele on Mon May 22, 2023 3:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: RZ350 reed cage options?

#14 Post by RZtuner » Sun May 21, 2023 8:15 pm

Excelente! Es un buen resultado, bien hecho!
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