Harsh Clutch

[silverstrom]

Yep...as I suspected when he said Castrol 2T. Time to start pulling the clutch out and go buy new friction plates.

If you only used it for a brief period your tranny should be fine unless you were riding it far and riding it like a stolen race bike. The bearings would be fine...it does, after all, lubricate the engine bearings. Not sure about the gears though. There is a reason gear oil is used. Gear oil is formulated for high pressure, shear stability, etc as gears mesh.

[motoholic71]

Get a magnet e.g. from an old speaker; Loosen the oil drain bolt, start the bike and let it idle for 5 mns then stop, undo the drain bolt and let the draining oil run through the magnet;
If steel filings can be seen stuck to the magnet, bad news I'm afraid.
If not then buy a cheap motorcycle wet clutch gear oil so that you can use this oil to wash out the two stroke oil completely. A 15mn. burst around the block is enough. Then drain and get a good oil to your liking within specs and a new set of friction plates, assemble, pour in the new oil and done.
But bear in mind that as said before Barnett and Hinson will not warranty if synth. oil is used, I'm sure if you ask them they will tell you what can and can't be used.

See these are consequences of banning 2 strokes from the streets, the knowledge is lost.Even workshops have to be very carefully chosen.Very seldom people will be able to work with both 2 and 4 strokes.

[motoholic71]

The part is NLA thru Yamaha ASAIK and the Barnett # surely is not the same. # 4H7-16321-01-00

Seems the 4H7-16321-01-00 was superseded by 4H7-16321-02-00, sorry.
I'm just afraid that they might change parts for the same model depending on country etc but an on line search is a good tool if you type the #.

[motoholic71]

The Barnett # is 301-90-10025

Exactly. This illustrates perfectly what I was saying, if you ask Barnett for Banshee plates they give you that part no which is the full width discs without room for rubber dampers.

Whereas if you ask for RZ plates they'll give you # 301-90-10825 , which are the narrower stock version;
But if you disassemble a stock Banshee or look at the parts list, you'll see the same exact narrow disc with rubber dampers as in a RZ.

Their mistake.

[bryanaverill]

I do know the difference between injector oil and transmission oil. I just made a dumb mistake in this case. To my lame excuse, the transmission oils and injector oils are all mixed up at my dealer. Sometimes they put 2T and 4T together on the aisle end cap for sale, adding to the mix-up. I'm honestly not a complete idiot as it seems.

I drained out the 2T and it was still blue and nothing interesting floating in the oil. I didn't run it past a magnet though. I replaced it with Castrol MTX 80W transmission oil. After a 5 mile ride the problem was still there. Maybe improved slightly towards the end of the ride. No doubt that the friction plates are ruined.

I'm leaning towards the Yamaha 4H7-16321-02-00 plate. At this point I see no reason not to use standard 10W30 motorcyle oil (no additives) as specified by the manual.

[krmiller70]

Get a magnet e.g. from an old speaker; Loosen the oil drain bolt, start the bike and let it idle for 5 mns then stop, undo the drain bolt and let the draining oil run through the magnet;
If steel filings can be seen stuck to the magnet, bad news I'm afraid.
If not then buy a cheap motorcycle wet clutch gear oil so that you can use this oil to wash out the two stroke oil completely. A 15mn. burst around the block is enough. Then drain and get a good oil to your liking within specs and a new set of friction plates, assemble, pour in the new oil and done.
But bear in mind that as said before Barnett and Hinson will not warranty if synth. oil is used, I'm sure if you ask them they will tell you what can and can't be used.

See these are consequences of banning 2 strokes from the streets, the knowledge is lost.Even workshops have to be very carefully chosen.Very seldom people will be able to work with both 2 and 4 strokes.

Depending on how many miles you rode with the 2 stroke oil in the gearbox, you maybe ok. Another method of flushing out the tranny without disassembling the engine, is to drain all the gearbox oil out. Pour in the factory recommended amount (by capacity) of high grade kerosene. But the bike on it's center stand or a center lift to get the rear tire off the ground, and start and gently run the motor through all the gears with NO load on the transmission. Do this for about 5 - 10 minutes and immediately drain the kerosene. Then promptly fill the tranny with a inexpensive gear box oil (GL-4) which means Grade 4 - Gear Lube. Use the lightest viscosity available to ensure it flows through all the bearings and hard to reach areas. Run this oil for about a half hour of gentle riding and then drain and replace with your preferred brand AND CORRECT GRADE AND WIEGHT GEAR LUBE.

Now inspect the kerosene you drained out with a magnet or pour it through a paper coffee filter to see if there are any metal shavings or debris in it and make an assessment of potential damage from there.

Last...but not least. Never, never use 2 stroke oil again in the gear box !!! Lol. You will be publicly flogged and banned from this and ALL 2 stroke related forums. ; ))) !

[mkane]

Manual's a bit outdated as far as oil is concerned

[silverstrom]

At this point I see no reason not to use standard 10W30 motorcyle oil (no additives) as specified by the manual.

It all comes down to how much protection you think your gears need. Gear oil is made for gears, so for me it seems like a no brainer, but I can understand why some people don't want to pay $16 for a litre of synthetic gear oil. Call me a big spender, but the last thing I want to worry about when hammering though the gears is if my tranny is going to pack it in. You get what you pay for. Oil has changed, attitudes need to keep pace with that change.

[bryanaverill]

I finally fixed it. I used Yamaha fz plates and plain 10w30 moto oil. Works perfectly. The Barnett friction material seems a lot harder than the Yamaha material. Not sure if they were made that way or if I fried them with 2c oil. I'm not sure hardness had anything to do with the problem. Either way, I'm using oem clutch parts from now on.

Thanks for the help.

[gus]

if you guys run out of the thicker style Yamaha plates I have a 1000 or so as well as the smooth steels that handle higher HP applications

[krmiller70]

In light of all the feedback regarding the RZ friction plates. I am wondering if you were to eliminate the rubber 'O' rings or dampers from the stock clutch plate configuration, will that allow or nessisate the use of an additional steel or fiber friction plate?

Or are the rubber dampers located in the back 'center' section of the clutch basket. The PO of my bike installed a Hinson basket, however I am having the same problems described with not being able to adjust the clutch to allow for the alignment pointer on the actuator arm to align with the 'arrow' on the upper engine case. I also notice the bike wants to 'creep' forward once it warmed up. I have adjusted the cable at the handlebar all the way into the perch which creates a lot of free play in the lever, so I've had to find a happy medium to get the clutch to disengage to allow me to put the engine in gear. I've also tried taking as much free play out of the new cable by adjusting it at the adjuster on the clutch behind the side cover.

This is becoming rather annoying since I'm running out of ideas. Do I need new plates and should I use the 6 steel and 7 fiber plates the factory manual indicates? I'm considering ordering the 7 fiber plates from a 1981 YZ 250 H.

Sorry for the long post, but running out of options here.

Thanks

[steveloomis]

Speaking of using transmission fluid, I just pulled the top end off my Yamaha XT600 due to low compression. This bike was purchased about 12 years ago as a parts bike, but was in such good shape I just hung onto it and finally got around to looking at it. Low compression was the reason to pull it apart. I found that when draining the crankcase, the oil smelled of 90w transmission oil, it was thick and was almost a quart over filled. This bike uses a remote oil reservoir but the check valve allows oil to run into the crankcase when siting idle for a while.
Anyway, I now know why they parked the '84 bike after 2 years, the intake was saturated with gear oil, the top of the piston was thick with gummy oil and the rings too. That along with pitted intake valves and seats contributed to low 90lb compression. Manual says 125 is minimum compression, max 171. I expect they ran it until it quit, as it was most likely smoking fiercely and just stopped running. This is all good news for me as the bike has low mileage, very little wear on anything and other than a valve job and new rings on the stock piston with new clearances, it will live again in a couple of weeks.
P.O's can be a pain, but this one did me a favor....

I am looking for suggestions on cleaning the transmission fluid out without having to disassemble the engine. This engine splits vertical and is a pain to do. Some have suggested adding a cup of Dextron ATF as it is a high detergent oil, others have said use Marvel Mystery Oil. I expect that using a cheap oil for a short bit will mix enough to drain it off. The insides of the engine are pristine clean already.

Steve

[T.RexRacing]

Run some straight 30wt in it for a couple of easy hours and change. That should dilute it enough that a couple of normal exchange intervals will finish the job. 90 wt oil has the viscosity of straight a 40 wt motor oil. It's the additives to make it cling and give a higher shear that make it pour slowly not the viscosity. The different numbers come from differing methods of testing. Gear oil especially in small amounts won't hurt a thing. It's just not the optimum fluid for that job. Then again neither is a motor oil in a shared gearbox/engine. :D

[steveloomis]

Thank you, best advice yet...

[nokturnal]

I will be interested to see how my new barnett clutch performs with klotz gear oil. I have use their clutches in the past and found that certain synth oils don't work well (belray gearsaver was horrible) but others worked fine. Motul transoil expert was quite grabby when cold.

I already have the klotz, so not going to toss it. Running ATF in my dirt bike, so might try that if the clutch doesn't like the klotz.