1984 RZ500 clutch slipping BADLY

[mike257s]

I've done everything I can think of with push rod adjustments AND making sure that the assembly of the pack matched the manual diagram. I can literally let the clutch out in any gear and it will just sit there and idle perfectly, with no grab or surge. Running recommended gearbox oil spec'd in the manual.

Only thing to try now is a new clutch pack and fresh springs? Basket and hub look almost perfect. Clutch springs are at minimum length but still in spec.

I *thought* I ran across a post here where someone mentioned a clutch pack from modern era would fit? Coincidentally, we have parts here for an '02 R1 rebuild, and the fiber plates and the steel plates both fit on the RZ hub and basket.

Any advice/suggestions?

Cheers,
-Mike

[steveho]

To have no drive at all, the plates cannot be compressed by the springs, i.e. be loose. Without the outer cover on you can check this.
I think the outer pressure plate (that the springs push into the springs) has the wrong angular orientation, so is bottoming on the hub.
Just a thought.

[tacky1]

Are you missing a plate, what if you loosen out the adjuster on the rod the whole way, does it bite then. The early model R1 plates fit. That’s what I use in mine.

[MK]

That sounds more like an assembly issue than a clutch issue.
Grab your workshop manual, disassemble everything and re-assemble it reading everything twice and thrice.

If it's that low torque when the clutch is engaged, then it's not the usual warped steel plates or worn springs. This has to be a serious thing missing or wrongly mounted.

[silverstrom]

Or you have used oil that has friction modifiers. In that case you may now need new friction plates.

[Motolli]

Don't forget to give the pushrod enough play. Adjustable behind the rubber plug of the sprocket cover.

[rz500guytexas]

Agree. Installation issue and no friction additives in the oil. Put all new parts in when doing the clutch and you eliminate all variables. Did you pre soak the plates or just install them dry?

[mike257s]

Thanks for the replies. I used the clutch pack that was in it, and as such were "pre-soaked."
All of the clutch pack components were in spec, no warping at all, but the springs were at the minimum length but still within spec.
Did pushrod adjustments several times, at oem spec in the manual, then 1/4 more and a 1/4 turn less than spec to see if it made any difference. Nada.
I used Motul Transoil 10W-30 - bad? Suggestion on what to use if the Motul Transoil is not optimal.

As of now, a complete oem clutch pack has been ordered. Waiting for the shipment from the Netherlands.
Already received OEM clutch springs as well as a set of Barnett clutch springs.

[mike257s]

That sounds more like an assembly issue than a clutch issue.
Grab your workshop manual, disassemble everything and re-assemble it reading everything twice and thrice.

If it's that low torque when the clutch is engaged, then it's not the usual warped steel plates or worn springs. This has to be a serious thing missing or wrongly mounted.

Was certainly my first thought. I disassembled and reassembled 3 times. Had two other people agree on the assembly process -- following the OEM parts diagram -and- shop manual. (both diagrams agree.) I'll be absolutely stumped if the new clutch pack and springs don't remedy the issue.

[tacky1]

Do you have the spacers 22 and 26 in the clutch, It sounds like something is missing thats not letting the clutch disengage completely...
Try it with the clutch rod backed off and disconnect the clutch cable,


https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists ... 2_20ef.gif

[MK]

I used Motul Transoil 10W-30 - bad? Suggestion on what to use if the Motul Transoil is not optimal.

I'll try to man-splain it: bad - worse - Motul Transoil

Long story: Use ANY other two-stroke gearbox oil, usually in spec SAE75 or 80.
I used Bel Ray MC4 for ages and the one and only time I ever put in Motul Transoil, the result was bad shifting, clutch drag and a hard to find neutral. This was immediately cured in a back to back experiment by simply draining the Motul and filling up Bel Ray.
Since then Motul can KMA for gearbox applications.
Their two-stroke oils are not part of this statement (they're still great)

Current Bel Ray Product will be this one:
https://www.muziker.de/bel-ray-gear-sav ... oil-80w-1l

Disclaimer: Your described issue was pretty certainly NOT induced by the gearbox oil. So a simple change will most likely not cure the effect and I'm still confident that it's an assembly issue.

[mike257s]

Do you have the spacers 22 and 26 in the clutch, It sounds like something is missing thats not letting the clutch disengage completely...
Try it with the clutch rod backed off and disconnect the clutch cable,

https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists ... 2_20ef.gif

For sure 22 and 26 are in place. Al I can do now is wait for the new clutch pack and in the mean time I will dump the transoil

[mike257s]

I used Motul Transoil 10W-30 - bad? Suggestion on what to use if the Motul Transoil is not optimal.

I'll try to man-splain it: bad - worse - Motul Transoil

Long story: Use ANY other two-stroke gearbox oil, usually in spec SAE75 or 80.
I used Bel Ray MC4 for ages and the one and only time I ever put in Motul Transoil, the result was bad shifting, clutch drag and a hard to find neutral. This was immediately cured in a back to back experiment by simply draining the Motul and filling up Bel Ray.
Since then Motul can KMA for gearbox applications.
Their two-stroke oils are not part of this statement (they're still great)

Current Bel Ray Product will be this one:
https://www.muziker.de/bel-ray-gear-sav ... oil-80w-1l

Disclaimer: Your described issue was pretty certainly NOT induced by the gearbox oil. So a simple change will most likely not cure the effect and I'm still confident that it's an assembly issue.

For sure this had been a concern from the get go. I am dumping the transoil and try the Bel-Ray -- and understood re: your disclaimer, even if it's highly likely not on oil issue. At least that variable will be eliminated if the new clutch pack does not solve the issue. (I hope it does, I'm banking on it.) Thanks for the info.

[rz500guytexas]

Make sure you soak the plates overnight. I run Valvoline 50 racing oils in mine. It is terrible to get the clutch to disengage when cold. Hydraulic clutch is part of issue. Once oil has warmed up she is good. I understand most important is not to have friction modifiers in the oil using wet clutch and the soaking of plates before installing. It is possible your springs are just shot.

[mike257s]

Update. Finally received the parts from over seas. New clutch pack and Barnett springs installed. Fiber plates were pre-soaked overnight. Gear box drained and refilled with Bel-Ray gearbox oil as suggested.

Adjusted the clutch push rod as per the manual. Test ride: Braaaap! Wheelie time. Strong pull, NO slipping. Calling that done.

Now, on to all the fuel leaks.

Thanks all so much for your input.