Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

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AHAMAYfrank
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Location: Outside Carrollton, Georgia

Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#61 Post by AHAMAYfrank » Sun May 20, 2018 12:14 am

I pulled out some parts today to think about grafting my R6 swing arm to my RZV frame. As I said before, because my frame needs some modification to attach the sub frame again, I am considering what it would take to use the standard R6 swing arm pivot bolt. Has anyone thought about this or actually done the work?

If I modified the frame in this area maybe I could use the R6 arm as is (in the pivot area) and use the larger R6 pivot bolt. The R6 arm fits in the frame until you get to the casting for the pivot mount. I didn't make any measurements but it wouldn't take much width adjustment to fit in the R6 arm. The bosses at the pivot area would need to be enlarged (and threaded on one side) but a quick look makes it seem feasible.

Any thoughts or information? :smt023

Frank S.
1973 Yamaha AT3 e-start, 1977 Yamaha TY250D, 1985 RZ500, 1987 Suzuki RG500CH, 1991/2014 TZR450F Yamaha, 1991TZ250B Yamaha, 1991 Yamaha TZR250R, 2005 Scorpa SY250R, 2017 Ducati SuperSport939S (for the runners)

frame maker
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Location: Nor Cal

Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#62 Post by frame maker » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:16 pm

I'm probably late to the party, but here's my idea for a modern frame that is RZ500 specific...

ImageDSCN9837 by andbike, on Flickr

ImageDSCN9840 by andbike, on Flickr

The frame is designed to accept most modern (R6, R1, GSXR, etc) front ends. R6 tank and seat. Swingarm will probably be an Aprilia (as in the photos). Wheel base is ~55in. Head angle ~21 degrees.

For reference, the design was based on these bikes which hold an AFM 500cc Twins Championship...

ImageDSCN0096 by andbike, on Flickr

The project is not finished, but I feel very confident that this will be an extremely fun bike when finished. Duplicates frames are available including a duplicate set of the BTR pipes.
cheers,
Julian

AHAMAYfrank
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:02 pm
Location: Outside Carrollton, Georgia

Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#63 Post by AHAMAYfrank » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:43 pm

Well that frame looks to be pretty modern I'd say. Thanks for sharing. Pretty serious size to the mid section of your pipes, have you ridden a bike with those installed?

You should start a thread and give us a.bunch of details and more photos. I would love to hear more about your project .

Really cool...

Frank S
1973 Yamaha AT3 e-start, 1977 Yamaha TY250D, 1985 RZ500, 1987 Suzuki RG500CH, 1991/2014 TZR450F Yamaha, 1991TZ250B Yamaha, 1991 Yamaha TZR250R, 2005 Scorpa SY250R, 2017 Ducati SuperSport939S (for the runners)

frame maker
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:31 pm
Location: Nor Cal

Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#64 Post by frame maker » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:57 pm

Thanks for the kind words!

I have not yet ridden anything with these pipes, but given the pipe builders experience I have 100% confidence that the performance will be outstanding. Brian's pipes are known for the fat mid sections as that's the best way to optimize for good mid-range torque. Many other pipe builders keep their pipes much narrower such that original body panels will fit. That is not a concern here.

I'd be happy to answer specific questions, but unlikely to start a dedicated build thread. The project began in 2001 for a paying customer. Our agreement was that I would not charge him for any of the design effort (only the construction effort) and in exchange he would allow me to produce a limited number of duplicate frames to sell as kits. The project went well for about a year or two until I required a second payment installment (still within agreed budget of course). Long story short, the project was eventually abandoned due to unforeseen circumstances with the customer (business + health issues).

I currently have three frames in similar stage as you see in the photos, and rough parts to produce 4 or 5 more. The bike in the photo is my own personal bike which I still hope to complete someday. If someone comes along and wants to purchase one of the frame kits I could be motivated to accelerate the project. Otherwise, it has been a low priority and likely to sit untouched for a few more years.... although talking about it now makes me want to start working on it again :grin:

If you look at the AK-1 (EX500 powered) race bikes that the RZ500 frame's design is based on you'll see they have a very simple swingarm. This is the swingarm I had intended to use, but the shock location is directly in the path of the rear pipes. I love the design of the Aprilia swingarm and is has the added benefit of a lower shock position, so I began to mock-up how it would fit (as seen in the photos). So a fair amount of re-design and re-working of the frame is required to make the Aprilia swingarm work, but that is the current direction. What looks like an ugly rear sub-frame in the photo is actually just a fixture for locating the rear pipes while they were being built. It will eventually be replaced with a proper sub-frame.
cheers,
Julian

Ron57
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Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#65 Post by Ron57 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:23 am

Hi Julian I'm keen to find out more on those BTR pipes.
The RZ500 in the back ground are the same pipes.
Cheers Ron.

lost1750GTV
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Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#66 Post by lost1750GTV » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:34 pm

the frame looks formidable.
from here it looks like the pipes on the rz aren't as fat - maybe for stock bodywork?
either way they "sure would like to have" pipes.

frame maker
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Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#67 Post by frame maker » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:37 pm

Ron57 wrote:Hi Julian I'm keen to find out more on those BTR pipes.
The RZ500 in the back ground are the same pipes.
Cheers Ron.
Hi Ron, Here are a few more details about the pipes... Brian (BTR) makes each set of pipes to order. He has fixtures for many different bikes and pipe configurations, however he often builds the pipes directly to the customer's bike thus taking into account any modifications made to the bike. For example, I have a TZR swingarm that will eventually be put on an RZ350. Because this allows for the shock and linkage to be relocated a few centimeters higher, Brian was able to take advantage of the added clearance when building GP style pipes for this specific application.

Because he is a one-man shop (also doing engine building, chassis modifications, and many other things) thus his pipes are not produced in larger quantities. Unfortunately this makes it more challenging for people in other geographical areas to get pipes from him. He is also so busy that he doesn't advertise, although he sometimes lurks on this forum and several folks here have his contact info.

Here's a photo of a few more sets he's made for my projects. Also should be mentioned that he does not make silencers, so you need to provide your own (I use TZ Mike's)...

left to right: AY-1/RZ500, RZ350 GP style, RZ250R GP style

ImageDSCN9949 by andbike, on Flickr

ImageDSCN9953 by andbike, on Flickr
cheers,
Julian

frame maker
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Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#68 Post by frame maker » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:41 pm

lost1750GTV wrote:the frame looks formidable.
from here it looks like the pipes on the rz aren't as fat - maybe for stock bodywork?
either way they "sure would like to have" pipes.
You are correct in that the pipes on the RZ500 are not as fat. That bike belongs to a friend of mine, so we had Brian make several sets of pipes at same time. Now if I could just get these projects finished :sad:
cheers,
Julian

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tacky1
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Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#69 Post by tacky1 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:38 pm

I have a set of Brians pipes and they are a fantastic fit and look even better, I used a set of TZ mike carbon cans,

AHAMAYfrank
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Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#70 Post by AHAMAYfrank » Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:09 pm

Well it looks like Photobucket came back for a while and now is again requiring money. Every photo I have posted on this sight I am thinking will go away. Not allot of great content, but a shame none the less. So I have been collecting parts for some time and doing a bunch of thinking. Today I am starting some disassembly.

EDIT: :smt017 It appears that I may be misinformed and photobucket will remain free I think? That may be a thread for itself. :smt017

My plan is to turn this stuff into a working motorcycle along with things I need to purchase yet. Frank

Image

If my photos disappear as I suspect I will need to start a new thread after I find a new photo hosting location.
1973 Yamaha AT3 e-start, 1977 Yamaha TY250D, 1985 RZ500, 1987 Suzuki RG500CH, 1991/2014 TZR450F Yamaha, 1991TZ250B Yamaha, 1991 Yamaha TZR250R, 2005 Scorpa SY250R, 2017 Ducati SuperSport939S (for the runners)

AHAMAYfrank
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:02 pm
Location: Outside Carrollton, Georgia

Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#71 Post by AHAMAYfrank » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:40 pm

Disassembly was pretty successful.

Image

Engine on the bench..

Image

Started work on the R6 Fork graft to RZ frame.

Image

I have a 15 ton press and it used up most of it to press out the R6 stem. I was a bit surprised. I couldn't get the RZ stem with the same force so I had to apply a little heat. I supposed it has been together for 30 years or so and was pretty happy staying together. By my observation I will need to create two sleeves or bushings. The RZ stem is smaller at both of the r6 triple clamps. My plan is to use both clips at the bottom to hold the stem in below the new press fit bushing I need to make, and to make another to press into the top triple clamp with clearance to the RZ stem. If anyone has a better idea or has done this a little differently, I would love to hear about it. :smt023

Thanks, Frank
1973 Yamaha AT3 e-start, 1977 Yamaha TY250D, 1985 RZ500, 1987 Suzuki RG500CH, 1991/2014 TZR450F Yamaha, 1991TZ250B Yamaha, 1991 Yamaha TZR250R, 2005 Scorpa SY250R, 2017 Ducati SuperSport939S (for the runners)

RC45
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Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#72 Post by RC45 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:57 pm

Reach out to RGVSteve, he has done a number of steering stem adaptions for folks over the years and may have a couple ideas how best to go about this.

The last one he did for me (maybe 5 years back now) was R6 yokes onto TZ250 stem.
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BigGuy
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Re: Modern Frame Ideas for RZ500?

#73 Post by BigGuy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:30 am

AHAMAYfrank wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:40 pm
Disassembly was pretty successful.

Image

Engine on the bench..

Image

Started work on the R6 Fork graft to RZ frame.

Image

I have a 15 ton press and it used up most of it to press out the R6 stem. I was a bit surprised. I couldn't get the RZ stem with the same force so I had to apply a little heat. I supposed it has been together for 30 years or so and was pretty happy staying together. By my observation I will need to create two sleeves or bushings. The RZ stem is smaller at both of the r6 triple clamps. My plan is to use both clips at the bottom to hold the stem in below the new press fit bushing I need to make, and to make another to press into the top triple clamp with clearance to the RZ stem. If anyone has a better idea or has done this a little differently, I would love to hear about it. :smt023

Thanks, Frank
http://www.rzrd500.com/500phpBB3/viewto ... =4&t=14579
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