Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

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giron
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Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#46 Post by giron » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:55 am

my sources are two. One is maintaining fighter and bomber aircraft for the United States Air Force and later part of the Nasa Shuttle program. lets see and the other one a member of Kenny Roberts Yamaha team. Building pipes for Kenny's team. I think there resumes are impeccable. I like to see more resumes on this board as theirs
1991 3MATZR250SP
!993 3XVTZR250SP
1996 RGV250(Lucky Strike)
1994 MC28SP
1995 MC28SP
1996 MC28SP
1985 RG500(Walter Wolfe)
1984 IT490
1985 RZV500R
1985 NS400R
1985 NS400R
1997 VFR750
1992 FZR1000
RGV400
TZR500
TZR350
1990 RZ350
1971 Porsche911S

silverstrom
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Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#47 Post by silverstrom » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:25 pm

And on and on we go. You just don't get it.

And to refute previous claims:
BRIAN TURFREY wrote: IF ANYONE THINKS IT IS OK TO DRILL INTO THE SIDE OF THE BASE OF THE CYLINDER AND TAP A 6mm and 8mm HOLE APPROX 60mm APART ( IN THE PORT WHERE IT IS 5mm to 6mm thick ) AND USE THAT AS AN ENGINE MOUNT POINT, ( "YOU HAVE LOST YOUR FUCKING MIND ".... FUCKING MORON.... AND EVERY OTHER DISRESPECTFUL NAME I COULD USE YOU )
Today I examined RZ500 cylinders that have been drilled for use in a TZR500. Having done so I ask where your claims come from. The base material is 15 mm thick vertically. The holes are drilled between the transfer port and the mounting hole for the cylinder. The material there is 30 to 40 mm deep. The drilled holes are approximately 25 mm deep.

I also examined an RGV500 and once again, I don't see what all the fuss is about as, once again, it all works perfectly fine, just as it has for many, many years.

These conversions have been done locally for decades and the bikes have had great success on the track, winning or placing in the top 3 in their classes, including heavyweight against far larger bikes. There have been no engine or transmission failures due to the conversions and there have been no failures of the mounts or cracks in the cylinders. So now, after nearly 30 years of racing and empirical evidence that proves the concept sound, you say the concept is flawed?

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giron
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Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#48 Post by giron » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:05 pm

John

I will provide my last posting this weekend. I will be at Brian's and we plan to measure what we consider the sacrificial mounts.

What I find so incomprehensible is the fact you guys are basing your information on a local shop. They have never and I mean never being involved nor have the EXPERIENCE as a member of no SHIT FACTORY MOTTO GP TEAM. The team was Yamaha (I forgot Yamaha engineers know nothing)

I will post some pictures and if you care to continue with your thoughts by listening to your local shops. Then go ahead.

A year or two or five my bike will be running in a CRADLE while you guys had a meltdown

Happy melting
1991 3MATZR250SP
!993 3XVTZR250SP
1996 RGV250(Lucky Strike)
1994 MC28SP
1995 MC28SP
1996 MC28SP
1985 RG500(Walter Wolfe)
1984 IT490
1985 RZV500R
1985 NS400R
1985 NS400R
1997 VFR750
1992 FZR1000
RGV400
TZR500
TZR350
1990 RZ350
1971 Porsche911S

silverstrom
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Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#49 Post by silverstrom » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:02 am

I'm trying to be polite and it's difficult. I give up. You have your head so far up his ass you can't see past his opinions. Every post you make involves Brian's name. For fuck sake; the minute you found out I had an RG500 you suggested Brian make pipes for it. That was pretty sleazy. I'll leave this now. I can't stand the anguish of failing to make even the simplest points. Hate me, ban me, banish me to the badlands, I don't care. As long as I never have to have another conversation about this I'll be very happy. I hope you and Brian are very happy together.

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giron
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Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#50 Post by giron » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:16 am

Well John

That's your choice if you can't see what is so obvious. Happy melting. I do ask for anyone that hangs a front engine mount like your local shop. Do post when it fails and I know it will. I will think to myself " I told you so"
1991 3MATZR250SP
!993 3XVTZR250SP
1996 RGV250(Lucky Strike)
1994 MC28SP
1995 MC28SP
1996 MC28SP
1985 RG500(Walter Wolfe)
1984 IT490
1985 RZV500R
1985 NS400R
1985 NS400R
1997 VFR750
1992 FZR1000
RGV400
TZR500
TZR350
1990 RZ350
1971 Porsche911S

RuZty
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:39 pm
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada

Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#51 Post by RuZty » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:25 am

giron wrote:.... a member of no SHIT FACTORY MOTTO GP TEAM. ...

....A year or two or five my bike will be running in a CRADLE while you guys had a meltdown

Happy melting
:smt005 I think the meltdown has already happened.

That's my new motto, happy melting. :smt073

RuZty
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Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#52 Post by RuZty » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:47 am

In keeping with the original post since the train has completely left the tracks, here are some other ideas (yes the first one is a 350, but it is relevant and is the work of 2Moto in the UK).

Image
Image

A similar concept on a 500 previously posted elsewhere on here;

Image

Which goes in this;

Image

I'm not passing judgement or assessing the merit of either of these methods but they have both been built as a specialty product by competent individuals. I also felt the method presented by Alex on the first page was very creative, as is most of his work.

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giron
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Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#53 Post by giron » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:22 pm

Why you didn't you use the stock front engine mounts? It was so close.
1991 3MATZR250SP
!993 3XVTZR250SP
1996 RGV250(Lucky Strike)
1994 MC28SP
1995 MC28SP
1996 MC28SP
1985 RG500(Walter Wolfe)
1984 IT490
1985 RZV500R
1985 NS400R
1985 NS400R
1997 VFR750
1992 FZR1000
RGV400
TZR500
TZR350
1990 RZ350
1971 Porsche911S

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ns86
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Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:46 pm
Location: ontario canada

Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#54 Post by ns86 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:23 pm

Giron, I asked for more info on failures and cause/effect as far as the RGV500 goes and no response? Show me the failures. Since you are leaving the forum I will let you know what I think with a personal testimony. You seem to have a trust issue and usually that is a warning that perhaps it is you that's not trustworthy. I bought an NS400 tank in so called mint condition off you years ago and when it arrived it had around a pound of flaking rust inside. Never mentioned in the listing and your response when I complained was a tirade about how everyone expects something mint for nothing. Never an acknowledgement that you were not forthcoming with the real condition of the tank, and you were quite nasty about it insulting me in the process. You and Brian seems very alike in that respect. You like to namedrop such as Brian , Yamaha MotoGP Team, and Naomi from Myabeeplusco. How you were out to dinner and informed them how these 2 strokes are not junk as they thought but quite valuable. Thanx for that as it seems you likely are responsible for them changing their eBay setup and jacking up their prices. Nice one! Real smart of you! As for cradle frames, you had your mind made up from the start. I have every frame in front of me [NSR/TZR/RGV/RZV/RZ/RG/NS} and the NSR250 and RGV250 are near the same. The RGV uses a cradle but is likely only for non structural reasons as the NSR is near identical without one. These idea's didn't come exclusively from a LOCAL SHOP since they were built without cradles for years in England and elsewhere but facts seem to mean nothing to you? We have taken enough abuse from you and your EXPERT friend......BYE!
1985 RZ500
1986 RG500
1986 RG500 C
1992 RGV500 WW ATR
1992 RGV500 LS
1985 NS500 Spencer p
1989 TZR500 Biaggi p
1984 RZV500 Rainey p
1994 NSR250sp R
1983 NS250 p
1987 RG250 WW p
1983 RG250 p
1988 YSR50 p

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giron
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Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#55 Post by giron » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:14 pm

Don't tell me about frames since I have all the bikes in my garage I will be taking pictures and measurements of the RZ500 cylinders and not of a RG500, but RG400.

I hope you continue doing your conversions. I hope the cylinders cracking are notice while no one are riding the bikes. No matter our difference of opinions with everyone here. I don't want to see anyone getting hurt.

At the end you will be responsible and I hope you live with it.
1991 3MATZR250SP
!993 3XVTZR250SP
1996 RGV250(Lucky Strike)
1994 MC28SP
1995 MC28SP
1996 MC28SP
1985 RG500(Walter Wolfe)
1984 IT490
1985 RZV500R
1985 NS400R
1985 NS400R
1997 VFR750
1992 FZR1000
RGV400
TZR500
TZR350
1990 RZ350
1971 Porsche911S

RuZty
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Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:39 pm
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada

Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#56 Post by RuZty » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:59 pm

giron wrote:Why you didn't you use the stock front engine mounts? It was so close.
It isn't mine, as stated above built by http://www.2moto.co.uk in the UK, why don't you ask them, I'm sure they'd be overjoyed to hear from you. The 500 is Mick Costins latest creation.

MK
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Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#57 Post by MK » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:13 pm

If I were to mount the engine by a bolt in the cylinder transfer area, why not weld a threaded bung at the outside and being done?
But I also like the 2moto solution which requires someone CNCing for you. The bung solution can be done by any gas monkey around town ...
Bye
Martin

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giron
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Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#58 Post by giron » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:28 pm

Hi Rusty

The first thing I saw where the front engine mounts on the case not used. I think a little more effort and fabricated a mount from the frame to the stock mounts (engine) to properly secure the engine. They could also have moved the frame mounts forward so it was line up better with the front engine mounts. i guess that requires more work.
1991 3MATZR250SP
!993 3XVTZR250SP
1996 RGV250(Lucky Strike)
1994 MC28SP
1995 MC28SP
1996 MC28SP
1985 RG500(Walter Wolfe)
1984 IT490
1985 RZV500R
1985 NS400R
1985 NS400R
1997 VFR750
1992 FZR1000
RGV400
TZR500
TZR350
1990 RZ350
1971 Porsche911S

User avatar
giron
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Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#59 Post by giron » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:36 pm

I only saw the NSR-500 project. They are using a cradle
1991 3MATZR250SP
!993 3XVTZR250SP
1996 RGV250(Lucky Strike)
1994 MC28SP
1995 MC28SP
1996 MC28SP
1985 RG500(Walter Wolfe)
1984 IT490
1985 RZV500R
1985 NS400R
1985 NS400R
1997 VFR750
1992 FZR1000
RGV400
TZR500
TZR350
1990 RZ350
1971 Porsche911S

RC45
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:18 am
Location: Houston, Texas.

Re: Suspended versus Cradled RZ500 engine hybrid builds

#60 Post by RC45 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:44 pm

ns86 wrote:Giron, I asked for more info on failures and cause/effect as far as the RGV500 goes and no response? Show me the failures. Since you are leaving the forum I will let you know what I think with a personal testimony. You seem to have a trust issue and usually that is a warning that perhaps it is you that's not trustworthy. I bought an NS400 tank in so called mint condition off you years ago and when it arrived it had around a pound of flaking rust inside. Never mentioned in the listing and your response when I complained was a tirade about how everyone expects something mint for nothing. Never an acknowledgement that you were not forthcoming with the real condition of the tank, and you were quite nasty about it insulting me in the process. You and Brian seems very alike in that respect. You like to namedrop such as Brian , Yamaha MotoGP Team, and Naomi from Myabeeplusco. How you were out to dinner and informed them how these 2 strokes are not junk as they thought but quite valuable. Thanx for that as it seems you likely are responsible for them changing their eBay setup and jacking up their prices. Nice one! Real smart of you! As for cradle frames, you had your mind made up from the start. I have every frame in front of me [NSR/TZR/RGV/RZV/RZ/RG/NS} and the NSR250 and RGV250 are near the same. The RGV uses a cradle but is likely only for non structural reasons as the NSR is near identical without one. These idea's didn't come exclusively from a LOCAL SHOP since they were built without cradles for years in England and elsewhere but facts seem to mean nothing to you? We have taken enough abuse from you and your EXPERT friend......BYE!
Argh.... I hope this is a misquote.. :(

Now I understand why I cant buy $20 1KT and $50 3MA frames and $35 NS400 wheels any more :(

I just stopped buying 2 stroke bits as the price went up.
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

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