TZR500 Race bike

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Helmers58
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:40 am

Re: TZR500 Race bike

#31 Post by Helmers58 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:56 am

That`s good to hear Wolfgangh. I think we will set the rpm limit right after the peak on the dyno curve, after testrun.
TS250x, TDR250, NS400R,
RGV250, Honda RS250,
610TC, RS250, GSX-R750,
R1, RSV Mile R, Bimota 500 VDUE,
1098S, ZX6RR, GSX-R1000, RG500, TZR500, S1000RR HP4

Helmers58
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:40 am

Re: TZR500 Race bike

#32 Post by Helmers58 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:18 pm

Had to replace the two rear pistons by new, modified TZ250 86/87 pistons. Since both cranks are spinning the same way on the RZ, and the exhaust exits at the backwords on the rear cylinders, the std 4dp pistons used at the front cylinders could not be used.

The pistons had to be machined flat (same height/squish), a new window at the inlet side had to be made, the old ring stopper was cut of and a new ring stopper was inserted at the inlet side. In addition, the pistons where a bit lighter, so I machined a "weight cylinder" to be installed inside the wrist pin.

Hopefully they will work well :)

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=4 ... der%2c.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
TS250x, TDR250, NS400R,
RGV250, Honda RS250,
610TC, RS250, GSX-R750,
R1, RSV Mile R, Bimota 500 VDUE,
1098S, ZX6RR, GSX-R1000, RG500, TZR500, S1000RR HP4

Helmers58
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:40 am

Re: TZR500 Race bike

#33 Post by Helmers58 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:32 pm

Hi guys!

Can anyone tell me what these wear marks comes from? Had a head which came loose because of bad threads in the tz cylinders.. Threads repaired, but I'm not sure whether to remove cylinder and piston to inspect before running a dyno test..

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=4 ... oto%2c.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=4 ... oto%2c.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Would appreciate you're feedback


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
TS250x, TDR250, NS400R,
RGV250, Honda RS250,
610TC, RS250, GSX-R750,
R1, RSV Mile R, Bimota 500 VDUE,
1098S, ZX6RR, GSX-R1000, RG500, TZR500, S1000RR HP4

Helmers58
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:40 am

Re: TZR500 Race bike

#34 Post by Helmers58 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:34 pm

Sorry, here is th link:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=4 ... der%2c.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
TS250x, TDR250, NS400R,
RGV250, Honda RS250,
610TC, RS250, GSX-R750,
R1, RSV Mile R, Bimota 500 VDUE,
1098S, ZX6RR, GSX-R1000, RG500, TZR500, S1000RR HP4

Helmers58
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:40 am

Re: TZR500 Race bike

#35 Post by Helmers58 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:49 pm

Image

Image


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TS250x, TDR250, NS400R,
RGV250, Honda RS250,
610TC, RS250, GSX-R750,
R1, RSV Mile R, Bimota 500 VDUE,
1098S, ZX6RR, GSX-R1000, RG500, TZR500, S1000RR HP4

Helmers58
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:40 am

Re: TZR500 Race bike

#36 Post by Helmers58 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:53 pm

When head was came loose, the coolant for sure was sucked into the cylinder. Maybe the expansion of the coolant water caused the rings to "expand"..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
TS250x, TDR250, NS400R,
RGV250, Honda RS250,
610TC, RS250, GSX-R750,
R1, RSV Mile R, Bimota 500 VDUE,
1098S, ZX6RR, GSX-R1000, RG500, TZR500, S1000RR HP4

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Rick Lance
Posts: 366
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:12 am
Location: Leicester, NC
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Re: TZR500 Race bike

#37 Post by Rick Lance » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:33 am

Insufficient clearance either caused by improper setup when first fitted, or too much piston expansion caused by the lack of cooling. You didn't seize and were not running lean and did not suffer from poor lubrication. The piston just became too big for the bore.

Note the dark ring on the outer perimeter of the piston, You are mixing and matching pistons, cylinders and cases that don't know each other and come from different applications. You piston may have been hitting the head and caused the thread damage and water leak. Have you measured your squish clearance? What was your installed piston to cylinder clearance?
If I disagree with everyone, that doesn't make me right. If I take the side of only one, it doesn't end the fight. If my position's strong enough from exposure to the light, you may see things my way when we share the same highway.

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Re: TZR500 Race bike

#38 Post by WVWRZ500N » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:45 pm

Helmers58 wrote:When head was came loose, the coolant for sure was sucked into the cylinder. Maybe the expansion of the coolant water caused the rings to "expand"..


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Hendrick,

Glad to see it's up and running.

As per your seizure. Too tight of bore tolerance. Which bank of cylinders is it on? I prefer to run a little more in the rear cylinders as a rule. Those run hotter to begin with and have a tendency to seize because of it. PM me if you want to talk specific tolerances.

As for the coolant question. A two stroke won't pull coolant into the cylinder. If a head gasket fails the combustion pressure will always over pressurize the coolant system.

As for the mix and matching of components that Mr. Lance refers to, I wouldn't be concerned with that at all. Many privateer GP teams and companies built their engines with multiple manufacturers cylinders, pistons and cranks. Nothing wrong with it a bit. You're a very competent and talented person and know what you're doing. You just got caught with a little too tight of tolerance on this one.

BTW how far into the break in period are you? By the rest of the 'wear' in the cylinder it doesn't look to be too far.

Regards,
Bill Wilson
Wilson Performance
Lee's Summit, MO
http://www.wilsonperformance.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
816-377-3185
WVWRZ500N@aol.com
Regards,
Bill Wilson
Wilson Performance
Lee's Summit, MO
http://www.wilsonperformance.net
Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
816-377-3185
WVWRZ500N@aol.com

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WVWRZ500N
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Re: TZR500 Race bike

#39 Post by WVWRZ500N » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:48 pm

.
Last edited by WVWRZ500N on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Bill Wilson
Wilson Performance
Lee's Summit, MO
http://www.wilsonperformance.net
Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
816-377-3185
WVWRZ500N@aol.com

Helmers58
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:40 am

Re: TZR500 Race bike

#40 Post by Helmers58 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:32 pm

Hi!

Thanks for you're replys. This is a very modified engine to start with. Cylinder piston/head squish is app 0.7mm, set up for 102 octane race fuel. (Unleaded 95 should have app 1.2mm) Pistons are used, which came with the tz cylinders. I have actually not checked the clearence, but from eye measure en feel, it seems to be enough clearance.

The engine has only been running for 20 minutes or so, and temp has not been above 65 degrees C, rather lower. The wear on the other cylinders looks normal.. The setup running is rather ridge than lean.

I know I should remove cylinder to inspect correctly, but the cylinder gasket is custom made and most likely will be damaged when cylinder comes of, so that's the reason I'm asking!


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TS250x, TDR250, NS400R,
RGV250, Honda RS250,
610TC, RS250, GSX-R750,
R1, RSV Mile R, Bimota 500 VDUE,
1098S, ZX6RR, GSX-R1000, RG500, TZR500, S1000RR HP4

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WVWRZ500N
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Re: TZR500 Race bike

#41 Post by WVWRZ500N » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:37 pm

Helmers58 wrote:Hi!

Thanks for you're replys. This is a very modified engine to start with. Cylinder piston/head squish is app 0.7mm, set up for 102 octane race fuel. (Unleaded 95 should have app 1.2mm) Pistons are used, which came with the tz cylinders. I have actually not checked the clearence, but from eye measure en feel, it seems to be enough clearance.

The engine has only been running for 20 minutes or so, and temp has not been above 65 degrees C, rather lower. The wear on the other cylinders looks normal.. The setup running is rather ridge than lean.

I know I should remove cylinder to inspect correctly, but the cylinder gasket is custom made and most likely will be damaged when cylinder comes of, so that's the reason I'm asking!


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Henrick,

You'll have to hone the cylinder more to gain more tolerance anyway and check to see if there is any issue with the piston or ring. Gasket may or may not be bad when removed. If it were me I would do the otherone right next to it exactly the same way.

Mic the piston and the bore and get the exact tolerance you have and that will tell you a lot.

Regards,
Bill Wilson
Wilson Performance
Lee's Summit, MO
http://www.wilsonperformance.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
816-377-3185
WVWRZ500N@aol.com
Regards,
Bill Wilson
Wilson Performance
Lee's Summit, MO
http://www.wilsonperformance.net
Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
816-377-3185
WVWRZ500N@aol.com

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Rick Lance
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Re: TZR500 Race bike

#42 Post by Rick Lance » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:56 pm

:cool:
Last edited by Rick Lance on Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: TZR500 Race bike

#43 Post by Rick Lance » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:10 pm

:cool:
Last edited by Rick Lance on Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TZR500 Race bike

#44 Post by WVWRZ500N » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:33 pm

.
Last edited by WVWRZ500N on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Bill Wilson
Wilson Performance
Lee's Summit, MO
http://www.wilsonperformance.net
Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
816-377-3185
WVWRZ500N@aol.com

User avatar
WVWRZ500N
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Re: TZR500 Race bike

#45 Post by WVWRZ500N » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:14 pm

.
Last edited by WVWRZ500N on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Bill Wilson
Wilson Performance
Lee's Summit, MO
http://www.wilsonperformance.net
Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
816-377-3185
WVWRZ500N@aol.com

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