3MA GP Tribute Build; V4 or Big-Bore Twin?

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JungleJustice
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#16 Post by JungleJustice » Fri May 11, 2012 12:17 pm

VIN / Racer 38 - nice bikes! Thanks for all of the input guys!

Well, the TSS guys and Costin all talk about 120 horsepower twins - then you think about power to weight ratios and it starts to make sense, but I only see 70-80 horses on dyno numbers and at the end of the day, that torque and further displacement potential of the V4 starts to get past all that.

I want much more power than that! It's sort of a shame since I have this twin sitting here, but it sounds like the V4 is the route to go from an ultimate power potential standpoint, ease of installation, wow-factor and from a final value / resale perspective...

The budget to do this fast is just not there, but I am off to a solid start. I have a couple of lines on V4 motors and the frame / tank / swing-arm will be here in a couple of days! I'll post pics! RGVSteve - I may knock on your door to help with the frame conversion and we still have to see exactly which swinger it is (sounds like TZR250) that shows up!

I have some thoughts on how to modify the bottom tank-line of the NC30 tank to make it fit the frame better.

Also, there is a set of 1995 TZR front forks and trple tree for sale here. They are inverted forks and come with a pair of bolt-on Sumitomo 4-pot front calipers from a 92 TZR and a Nissin master cylinder, but they are pricey (and incomplete!) I wonder if a complete R6 or other front-end wouldn't be better? I would still have to sort and source discs and axle and fender and other hardware if I take the TZR front end! Besides, how good is it compared to newer machines? Would we not want newer technology in the overall fork design?

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Last edited by JungleJustice on Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Jeff B
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#17 Post by Jeff B » Fri May 11, 2012 10:10 pm

JungleJustice wrote: Would we not want newer technology in the overall fork design?
If the goal is purely performance, then absolutely. Granted I no nothing about TZR forks. On the other hand if you want it to be more of a period build, like a early 90's YZR replica then maybe the TZR forks would be fitting.

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#18 Post by JungleJustice » Fri May 11, 2012 11:02 pm

I like the light, nimble aspects of the twin build, but I think that i will miss the V4. Now it's all about dollars. I need to find a known-good, rebuildable V4 core that won't break the bank and I have to see what I can get for my '87 YPVS twin...

By the way - have a look back through the thread from the start; I finally got around to compiling and uploading some pictures of the other builds that I like!

And then, here are more pictures for inspiration!

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Last edited by JungleJustice on Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#19 Post by hybrid » Sat May 12, 2012 8:42 pm

Although my bike is one of those pictured... I've got to put my realistic hat on for a second :grin:

You talk about big power, but I'm yet to see proof of an RZ500 engine (big bore or not) that has proven power over 100hp. Happy to be proven wrong!

But with the massive banshee following in the states, there are PLENTY of big power 350 based twins out there.

If I had my time again, I would do the R6 project. Yeah my costin frame is great, and it's different, and it's hand made and all that, but I could have just about bought a complete R6 for just the cost of my frame alone.

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#20 Post by Jeff B » Sun May 13, 2012 3:54 pm

I have liked the TZR framed builds that I've seen. If you have one then I'd stick with that. After looking through your pictures here's pops into my head.

TZR frame with 500 motor and the tank you have.
Bodywork like that last R5 you pictured. I think it's WCM moto gp bodywork.
95/96 YZR500 seat.

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Re: Group Build 3MA Custom / TZR535 or V4?

#21 Post by JungleJustice » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:58 pm

Hi Guys! Time to move this one forward as well. I have a question about R6 forks and specifically about interchangeability of the stems from the various years with triple trees and forks from various years;

First, allow me to apologize for all of the broken image links! I rearranged my Photobucket files, renamed some things etc., but what I did not realize, is that this assigns new link tags for every single image - even if you simply renamed the project file and didn't even move it! Anyway, I'll re-post those new links next week, because I think that it is kinda nice to have highlight pictures of the various projects that are an inspiration for mine - within the same thread...

Next, here's the update on where I am;
1) Still hunting for a well-priced, rebuild-able, V4 core (or for a used running one, or even just cases then to start a build from.) Anybody?

2) I do have a YPVS RZ350LC motor sitting here as a back-up, but I kinda have to decide now and lock it in before I send the frame to RGVSteve for conversion. I think that I am going to go the V4 route.

3) I'll post picks on Monday of the swinger - I'd like to confirm the exact model (I think that it was V-Twin 250, but not sure.)

4) All the parts that came off of the wire-wheel "TZV500R" retro build, are no designated for this one! The blue R1 calipers with the blue EBC rotors, the 2-piston caliper, rotor and 3-spoke 750 wheels (all presumably from some earlier Yamaha model - would like to confirm...)

SO, I have the 3MA frame, swinger, Honda VFR400 tank and lost of other parts ready; the frame conversion is next. I am about to send the 3MA frame and the banana swing-arm to RGVSteve for conversion, but I have not purchased the forks yet (I'll probably keep it Yamaha and should probably stay close to a tried and trusted route such as R6?) I want to wait to buy forks for budget reasons (until I am closer to needing them!) In the interim though, I have to provide SOME yoke to Steve for conversion.

My questions then;
a) Is there a particular model of R6 to pull forks from? I see many 2006 model builds. Does it matter? Are '09 / '10s better for some reason? Stay '08 or older? I realize that with the radial mounts, I won't be able to use the blue R1 calipers - that's okay - I'll likely purchase a complete rolling front anyway. For now, I'd like to buy JUST the yoke though! Will ANY yoke from the YZF / R6 from say 2004 to 2010 fit ANY triple tree from those years though!?

b) Does anybody have one for me - or perhaps a set of forks, tree, yoke, brakes etc complete? My thinking is that the longer I wait to buy the actual fork legs, the better the quality of what I will be able to afford. I want to make sure that the yoke that I get now (and that Steve converts), will fit any R6 tree and in turn fit any of the R6 forks from those years (short of some uber-expensive, off-the-wall, larger diameter, racing setup that I likely won't get anyway...)

c) Any other instructions / direction / requests that I should make of Steve right now regarding the 3MA and banana swinger conversion - anything that will help me down the line? Tabs to weld, angles to change? Rear shock-mounts? Changes? Lessons learned from other conversions completed to date?
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Re: 3MA GP Tribute Build; V4 or Big-Bore Twin?

#22 Post by RuZty » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:48 am

I have a set of '05 R6 forks on my 350 hybrid, the first year they were offered inverted and with radial brakes. I believe this was a half year change and the bike was completely redesigned for '06 with adjusters added to the fork lower. Mine are 50mm upper clamp ID and 52mm lower clamp ID, and I am almost certain the '06 and on were the same for at least a few years. FWIW the R1 radial calipers bolt right on (silver spots on mine, I think the R6 was gold). Axle diameter is 22mm and the R6 wheel uses non-standard bearings, which makes fitting wheels with bearing OD's different than the R6 wheel a challenge.

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Re: 3MA GP Tribute Build; V4 or Big-Bore Twin?

#23 Post by WVWRZ500N » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:10 pm

John,

We've discussed it before, time and money, time and money.

End of the day is your personal preference. I like what some have had to say about resale, tunability, nimbleness etc. All good points to consider for sure.

Dollar for dollar spent with a project of this caliber your looking at about the same money. A well tuned 500 will set you back a solid $10K with everything attached. A similar 500cc twin won't be far behind it. The one thing going for the 500 build is more have done it and there are 'off the shelf' parts being made for these custom projects more and more. Like pipes for example. A twin project big bore will require much more custom built pipes to attain the power your looking for in that engine.

If it were me, I'd take the V4 route simply to make it a real replica. Hope I get a hand in helping you on it when it comes time for the engine V4 or not.

Regards,
Bill Wilson
Wilson Performance
Lee's Summit, MO
http://www.wilsonperformance.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
816-377-3185
WVWRZ500N@aol.com
Regards,
Bill Wilson
Wilson Performance
Lee's Summit, MO
http://www.wilsonperformance.net
Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
816-377-3185
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JungleJustice
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Re: 3MA GP Tribute Build; V4 or Big-Bore Twin?

#24 Post by JungleJustice » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:24 pm

Thanks guys! Yeah, it's just money - they're printing more as we speak, right...? :???:

Anyway, here's the banana swingger. I took a stab at the year, make and model already; can somebody else here please confirm or correct with certainty. I'm about to ship this off to RGVSteve with the 3MA frame.

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Re: 3MA GP Tribute Build; V4 or Big-Bore Twin?

#25 Post by rzmax » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:32 am

I'm in the process of doing the same build myself. Currently aquiring parts at the moment and have just about everything to complete a rolling chassis with the engine/electronics. I have the exact same swinger (I think) and mine came from a TZ250 4DP. Although yours could be from a 4TW or 5KE as they're similiar. Do you know the size of the axle bore?

Have a look here: http://www.pure-2-stroke-spirit.info/node/22" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good luck with your build and please keep the pics coming!

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Re: 3MA GP Tribute Build; V4 or Big-Bore Twin?

#26 Post by JungleJustice » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:01 pm

Cool - thanks!

My first guess was 4TW4 - just from some other close-ups that I saw... Not sure what the diameter of the axle is. Can one tell from that measurement.

Good luck with your build too - the custom stuff really takes it outta ya.
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