2Moto RD500 Project

Got a customizing or restoration project? Post your progress pictures and updates here

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RC45
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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#16 Post by RC45 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:47 pm

2moto wrote:You state things like they are fact when they are definitely not. You're wrong on the swinging arm, on the welding, and on the weight. But hey, I am not here to argue. Clearly, you wouldn't want one anyway.
I was sure to say 'might' 'may' 'probably' many times in the posts I have made where there may be doubt of possible grey areas in comments I am posting.

In fact I have gone back and BOLDED the places I did.

How about pointing out where my facts are wrong rather than just blanket statement dismissing the comments.

And clearly I wouldn't want one what?

Bespoke frame that might fatigue crack at the steering head after a few well placed wheely landings? No thanks.

As for the weight & length of the 3XV swinger versus 4DP and 5KE, I simply went out to the garage and weighed and measured the ones I have on hand. As to the 3TC frame dimensions, dog bones and swinger - again, I just measured the ones I have on hand. Not that having parts on hand means anything or makes what I post gospel truth - they are simply observations.

A 360lb bike is a heavy bike. That's a fact.
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pstamper
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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#17 Post by pstamper » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:30 pm

Happy Easter everyone. What is the best bike in the world?

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Ronnie
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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#18 Post by Ronnie » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:42 pm

I think he's gone and pulled the plug... Shame. It was very interesting. :smt009

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adr1an
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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#19 Post by adr1an » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:11 pm

Whilst weight is important there is obviously a compromise using the RZ motor which is a heavy lump. 360lbs ain't that heavy at all considering. In reality more significant improvements could be made by going on a diet (particularly at my age) or more importantly improving our riding skills (assuming that you are not a national standard racer or better). I'd suggest that if any of us had a real YZR with all the weight and power gain, there are very few who could really ride the thing, We'd probably be much faster on our 'heavy' +360lb diesel modern sportsbikes, but........that's not the point is it? All that aside, just do whatever 'floats your boat' so as to speak.

This looked an interesting project, until 2Moto was chased away. Not good for the forum. Surely it's not hard to compliment someone on their work whether you agree with what they are doing or not. Then again...maybe it is for some......................

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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#20 Post by pstamper » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:12 pm

No one answered the question. It is the bike you ride. Having a glass of wine and saw this. I love the diet comment and so true. Look how fit these racers are now. F1 and moto gp. These guys, oh kids are bad ass. Check out the Unrideables that Ronnie posted. Screw that crap my heavy weight spun up the tire and thru me over the handlebars. These replica bikes are great and I love seeing the craftsmanship because I will never be able to do it. Our bikes are fun and with some simple modifications they are a competent and reliable bike, street or track. We can go over the top on some modifications and who do you find that is competent or brave enough to ride our test project. The guy that rode my Rz at cota said it was great and he raced Aprilla cup and has an AMA race license. So we all do have a baseline to work from and this forum has helped provide wonderful information and inspiration. Please keep the info coming. By the way my fnnnnn Ducati stopped twice this Sunday. Pissed me off. My rzs are more reliable.

RC45
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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#21 Post by RC45 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:26 am

Nobody was 'chased away' - the guy got his feelings hurt and decided to simply attack critics rather than discuss his statements. Would it be better for the forum to simply take every posted statement as gospel without discussion?

If he/they are that good and build competitive MotoGP/2/3 chassis then his confidence in his/their skill at a chassis design is all that counts and he really shouldn't give a crap what any of us think or say - not so?

He came to the table declaring the 3MA chassis was crap and needed to be dumped in favour of a special frame build - that was his 'fact' presented. He then further claimed that heat treating of welds on certain alloys is not needed.

Rather than stay and discuss the issues he chose to depart. It seems that just because other parties don't accept his 'facts' without question he got a little peaved.

I have approached frame builders in my pursuit of a bespoke RS500/NS500 frame and all of them stated that the frame would need to be heat treated after assembly to maintain integrity of head stock and swing-arm pivot area if welded up from scratch. Are we now to understand that heat treating is a fallacy?

Here we have a frame builder claiming heat treating of welds is not needed when using certain alloys then bailing before offering a proper explanation of his blanket 'no heat treating needed' statement.

Again, if they are that good and skilled why would he/they leave rather than stay and stick up for their manufacture methods and continue the discussion.
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adr1an
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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#22 Post by adr1an » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:50 am

Hmmmm..........well I guess you must be right then............. :grin:

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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#23 Post by Dubsey » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:57 am

I quite like my 3ma 500 w :)orks on track and road
Mediocrity is a sin !

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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#24 Post by RC45 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:45 am

adr1an wrote:Hmmmm..........well I guess you must be right then............. :grin:
Not must but only Might b or possibly could be somewhat right ;)
Dubsey wrote:I quite like my 3ma 500 works on track and road :)
That's what I thought - if the 3MA based builds are such rubbish, how come yours (and others) work so well?
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Rick Lance
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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#25 Post by Rick Lance » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:01 am

The alloys used in construction of our Gamma and RZV frames is of a type that hardens with age and was never heat treated by the factory. They are, however allowed to sit for months before being pressed into service. Suzuki was adamant about never welding on an aged frame as it only goes through this process once and the frame is weakened from re-applying welding heat. Still, with proper technique and welding rod, craftsmen such as RGV Steve can perform modifications without cause for worry. His work has been around long enough to stand on its own merits and reputation. I am sure that there are others with such talents. Truth be told, the stresses we apply to our machines in operation are on the low end of the scale at this stage in the game.
If I disagree with everyone, that doesn't make me right. If I take the side of only one, it doesn't end the fight. If my position's strong enough from exposure to the light, you may see things my way when we share the same highway.

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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#26 Post by RC45 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:46 am

Rick Lance wrote:The alloys used in construction of our Gamma and RZV frames is of a type that hardens with age and was never heat treated by the factory. They are, however allowed to sit for months before being pressed into service. Suzuki was adamant about never welding on an aged frame as it only goes through this process once and the frame is weakened from re-applying welding heat. Still, with proper technique and welding rod, craftsmen such as RGV Steve can perform modifications without cause for worry. His work has been around long enough to stand on its own merits and reputation. I am sure that there are others with such talents. Truth be told, the stresses we apply to our machines in operation are on the low end of the scale at this stage in the game.
Every time I swing my leg over the seat of my bike I entrust my safety to work performed by RGVSteve - and have no problem doing so.

Limited mods to existing castings/extrusions not withstanding, please point me to a US-based frame builder that would be willing to step up and build a full alloy frame from scratch without balking at the prospect of not heat treating the resultant creation. Perhaps I have just spoken to the wrong bike builders.

As for broken frames, I have seen a few alloy frames with torn steering head welds - granted these where older modded franken-bikes, but it can happen.
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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#27 Post by Dubsey » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:54 pm

Hmmm interesting this person has removed his comments
Is it because we found him out ?
Quite possibly he knows what he is doing ....possibly ?
All the problems he has listed have all been solved by people on this forum, myself included
If he bothered to do a search or ask questions he would have found the answers
and none of them would have involved a new frame
What does this guy expect ? a 4 cylinder engine in to a two cylinder frame of course it will be tight 'der'
If this guy has nothing to hide why remove posts and who is he ?
I would be interested to know his engineering background
My chassis works because I removed most of what had been done previously by others and started with a blank canvas and had things done properly by myself and trusted others
there are a lot of people who think they know what they are doing in the uk unfortunately only a few have the necessary skills
My bike is a little heavy but with full road gear and I mean full it is very comparable with other machines of smaller cc
It strikes me that this guy needs to put up or shut up preferably the latter and maybe do some reading (only a suggestion)
Who is the owner of this bike ?
Why allow a salesmen to sell you a product of unknown quality when you have a Yamaha product more than capable of doing the job ?
Of course all this is my opinion , and who am I to question ?
So moto2 stop spitting your dummy out , and explain to me why and how my build does not work ?
Oh by the way I also have pics that suggest it all works very well and is not just a 'pretty ornament' as you suggest, and I am far from a star rider !
Or are you just after someone elses money ?
Man up and defend your statements !!!!!!!!
Mediocrity is a sin !

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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#28 Post by begbie » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:51 pm

They make a chassis for a moto-2 GP bike.
Check out there site. http://www.2moto.co.uk/frame-kits-overview.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There frame kits seem reasonable
kits consist of the following:

The main frame, designed for a specific engine, swinging arm, and front end
The tank, or fuel cell with tank cover
The rear subframe and seat cowling if not an off-the-shelf item
Swinging arm and suspension linkage. if not designed for the production items
A fixing kit for all the fasteners, etc. needed to bolt everything together

Price

This obviously depends on the content of each kit. As a guide, our kits tends to be in the range of £3000-5000 (British Pounds). A deposit of 30% is required at time of order.

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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#29 Post by Dubsey » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:20 pm

I remember the 95 racer thing in performance bikes, and was quite impressed
I have looked at the website and see info about tubular frames didn't see anything on the alloy ones
I am not in the market for a bespoke frame, if I were I know of maybe two people I would trust to make it
and I am more than happy with my 3ma hybrid
The 3ma works it is that simple, but a difficult job to complete well
Quite possibly the customer was sold a new bespoke frame as the cost to put right the 3ma were similar
But to condemn what works because it does not work for oneself through cost or lack of skill is misleading and is not what I thought this forum is about
Mediocrity is a sin !

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Re: 2Moto RD500 Project

#30 Post by ns86 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:48 pm

I'm down with Dubsey on this one. I feel 2moto's comments are unnecessary and more than a bit insulting when referring to the 3ma hybrid " Reportedly, about 12 of these were built, and judging by this one, I doubt any of them see any serious tarmac time. More likely, they'll be sitting in people's living rooms or other coveted, dry locations. They certainly look pretty with replica Max Biaggi bodywork. " Pretty sure Dubsey's been wet on his? Keep in mind these opinions are on his website. He is selling hybrid frames so he has a vested interest in condemning the 3ma hybrid. I have raised the same questions about the 3ma chassis myself and of course a Costin or such would probably be a better race bike, but seems to me a 3ma hybrid should be a damn good street bike. That's why I'm building one!
I like what they are trying to do. I don't like what they are doing.
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