Zeeltronic......

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steveho
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Zeeltronic......

#1 Post by steveho » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:01 pm

Hooked up a Zeeltronic PCDI-24V to my YZR rep with a homemade custom loom. All electrics work fine, but I have no sparks...
I am in discussion with Borut, and am trying a few things. However, wondered if anyone on this forum has any experience. The unit powers up, PV's cycle, but no sparks. Have swapped the stator and coils out for replacements, but no joy. Running out of ideas....
Any help or comments appreciated. :-(

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#2 Post by MK » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:50 pm

What static angle have you programmed ?

Hook up the handheld and kick.
Does it power up when switching ignition to on ?
Does it show rpm >0 ?
Bye
Martin

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#3 Post by steveho » Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:18 pm

Hi Martin,

34 degrees static angle, just as an approximation.
Powers up the handheld with ignition on.
Kicking over flickers rpm and ignition on handheld, so, presume pick-up is ok.
Thanks for input.
Rgds.

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#4 Post by MK » Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:54 pm

In that case directly connect the CDI HT coil output to the +terminal of a knowingly working HT coil.
Also directly connect the CDI ground cable to the HT fastening bolt.
Unscrew the plug from the engine, put it in the cap and connect the thread to the mentioned ground cable.
If it's a double coil, you need both plugs.

Then kick it and check for spark.
If it sparks check your DIY loom.

Btw: you haven't grounded the kill switch input (b/w) by error? Disconnect it to be sure.
Also ensure that the stock kill switch does not ground anything (check the CDI inputs red, green, brown if they have zero ohm against ground)
Bye
Martin

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#5 Post by steveho » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:13 am

Hi Martin,

Tried doing as suggested and connected everything directly to 1 common earth, but still no sparks. Re. the kill switch, in desperation I cut the B/W wire at the CDI to be sure it is not active.

The red and brown from the generator are not grounded to earth, but the green is connected directly to earth, as per Borut's instructions.

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#6 Post by wolfgangh » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:21 pm

I am using the similar PDCI-44V and had the same problem. In the ZEELTRONIC software programming you have the option to set the Stop Switch Mode (aka Kill Switch) to "Low Level Stop" or "High Level Stop".
Try connecting the B/W wire to ground. If you have the software and the USB cable, set the Stop Switch Mode to "Low Level Stop" - I think the handheld programmer does not have this menu option.

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#7 Post by steveho » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:43 pm

Hi Wolfgangh,

Thanks for the input.
I only have the handheld controller, and do not have the option to change the kill switch functionality. However, I tried earthing and not earthing the kill switch wire to no affect.
Thanks.
Rgds.

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#8 Post by MK » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:01 am

That's why I love open discussion. You always learn new things (didn't know that option, yet, but a crap default would perfectly explain what you see)
Con-Agrument:
The trick with Boruts Handheld-CDI communication is that whatever device you attach, they talk to each other and on the Handheld you see what's possible. That means you can use the very same programming device for a PPV, a VCDI, a PDCI or a PCDI.
It simply doesn't make sense to deliberately have "hidden" options that the Handheld does not see/show.
Smells like a software bug if you ask me.

But if it doesn't work either way it's likely not that option.
I still put my egg in the basket that the generator source coils don't supply the necessary voltage either to failure or the stock kill switch grounding it.
Btw: that's why I prefer DC CDI's - it saves you that hazzle as if there's 12V it'll work.

Have you measured resistance between red/brown/green and are the values within Yamaha spec?

Try building this device and measure the peak voltage between each of red/green/brown and ground while kicking.
http://s2.photobucket.com/user/thejnk/m ... d.png.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bye
Martin

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#9 Post by steveho » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:02 am

Martin, is there any way I can just check the generator source coils with just my meter, without the test circuit you have described?

I have now tried 2 stators (both with correct resistances), and have confirmed the continuity of them to the Zeeltronic (by using a pin through the insulation, to confirm the OEM connector is not at fault). I am not using the original kill switch or ignition switch, and the B/W kill switch wire is not connected. So, am starting to think the Zeel unit itself is bad....
I've asked Borut if there are any tests I can do on the unit. I have already checked the output from the Zeel for the stock tacho output (which I am not using), and there is nothing, not the 200VDC that is normal.

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#10 Post by wolfgangh » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:06 am

Have you tried the spark test function? It should produce spark at each plug sequentially, without the engine running.

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#11 Post by steveho » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:36 am

Hi Wolfgangh, How do I do this? (I only have the hand controller and not the full software.....).
Rgds.

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#12 Post by wolfgangh » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:57 am

I domt know of the handheld controller supports this. I would highly recommend you to get the USB cable and use the software programmer - it is so much easier and faster!

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#13 Post by MK » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:02 am

Wolfgang, he's got a "normal" CDI, not a DC CDI.
So any "test" button will not work unless there's input from the source coils of a running engine.

You could try to set your meter to V AC and check if there'd be a voltage input to the PCDI via red/green/brown by kicking it over.
Try with the CDI attached and without.
Also try "just the stator" without any connection to the bike harness.
If there's some voltage that the sources create, the CDI should work and you certainly eliminated stock kill switch and faulty source coils.

If there's no outut voltage at the orange HT primaries it means the CDI does not create a spark.
That leaves a possible settings issue or a faulty CDI. Both can be determined by Borut but involves a bit of shipping costs.
If you send it back anyway: You may negotiate a swap with a DC CDI (= PDCI in Boruts product portfolio) and add a Zeel-Prog cable.
Bye
Martin

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#14 Post by steveho » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:48 pm

Firstly, thanks guys for your input.....greatly appreciated.
Tried to measure output voltages from red/brown/green, but no joy, as my meter just displays OL....
However, can't believe that 2 stators that measure correct resistances are faulty.
Just tried a regular lead acid battery instead of Li-ion, in desperation, but no change.
There is no output at the HT connections.

Martin, what is the advantage of having a 'DC' CDI? Sounds intriguing....!

Hope to get feedback from Borut tomorrow. Worst case I just buy another unit.

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Re: Zeeltronic......

#15 Post by MK » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:19 pm

A "normal" CDI draws it's spark energy from the source coils in the stator.
In your case it seems to me that there's no voltage coming out from here and thus no spark.

A DC type CDI draws the energy from the battery, i.e. the charging system needs to work a bit harder in normal operation.
As a reward the state of the source coils doesn't matter ad they're not used any more. Just the pickup needs to work (which you confirmed as you have an rpm signal during kicking).
Bye
Martin

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