TZR250 frame conversion

[silverstrom]

I beleive some of the ATR machines have survived 15 years or so now as I have old magazine articles showcasing some of those bikes.

I'll be at Andy's shop (ATR) in a few days. I'll ask him.

[Questo vecchio rz]

I beleive some of the ATR machines have survived 15 years or so now as I have old magazine articles showcasing some of those bikes.

I'll be at Andy's shop (ATR) in a few days. I'll ask him.

I think that would be great, not to tell others one way or the other, but to show what is possible and how some just choose to do things. Perhaps he has some input and ideas of what works, what doesnt and things he'd consider changing...if anything.

I'd have to search the archives here for sure, but I dont recall any in depth writeups here. It would be fun to see some feedback, photos or just information while your there.

If possible I'd bet some here would be quite intrested.

[RuZty]

Maybe you may ask why they have rubber inserts around the bolts. Can it be to absorb the vibration.

If you look at the upper mounts on the ATR bike the CNC'd brackets he made are hung from rubber mounts like the ones Yamaha use on some of their 4 stroke engines. I don't disagree that mounting to the cylinder (not head) is not optimal, the cases would be better, but this isn't a high mileage bike and it's held up for over a decade in that form. I have a TZR rolling chassis to go towards a build like this, I would be interested to hear how you propose it should be done.

[BRIAN TURFREY]

If... you look at the "BASE OF THE CYLINDER".... BETWEEN THE CYLINDER BASE STUDS... AND DRILL INTO THAT AND TAPE A 6MM AND AN 8MM THREAD INTO THE CYLINDER "RIGHT INTO THE PORTS" ...... AND THINK THAT IS OK TO HANG AN ENGINE FROM....... YOU HAVE LOST YOUR FUCKING MIND? REALLY? UN- FUCKING REAL THAT SOMEONE WOULD EVEN THINK THAT WOULD BE OK?

[RuZty]

Hi Brian, I'm not sure if that tirade was directed at me or just the thread in general, but to answer your question, no I don't think that is a good thing to do, nor would I have chose to do it that way. I also don't have one right in front of me to see how it was done in detail, where the bolts end up, or what other mounting points the engine is using. It was stated that the engine is a stressed member when there are rubber mounts and I was pointing that out.
It appears in some pictures that the YZR500 mounted the engine from the cases just in front of the upper cylinders,and if so then this feature was obviously cast into cases designed to take the load there. I don't know if this could be added to RZ cases or not, I have always assumed a cradle would be the easy way. The only YZR500 I have ever seen in person was going around Donnington in '89, and I don't currently own an RZ500 to look at either, but since you have first hand experience with both it would be appreciated if you could comment on it. Thanks.

[Questo vecchio rz]

The hell with it delete the bolts and weld & safteywire the entire Goddamned thing together, just make it one large solid chunk of metal.

Seriouslly though, The man has this exact bike in his shop and can visually see whats advisable & whats not. "If I was to do a swap like this..which I'm not", I'd be able to see something like this 1st hand as well I would also take (Mr.Turfreys) advice into serious consideration and see if what I described in my 1st post could be an option or to create or reinforce & modify the mounting point.

Sounds like its not "ideal" but bikes have been running in that condition (to what degree? & for how long? ) I wouldnt have a clue? However anylasis from a certainly respected source has shown its a potential weak point with ill advised mounting depth , safe to say it might be prudent to modify it ..in some way to a more fail safe part.

My 1st (blind guess) would be if clearance allows adding material to allow larger dia higher strength bolts and add material to eliminate depth & any possible interferance with ports.

Theres alot to consider solid, rubbermounted, cracking, vibration, clearance, metallurgy etc..not only for frame & rider but cylinders, electronics etc.. I'ts obviouslly more than meets the eye, when altering or attempting to alter a nicley engineered part.

People including me have been shoehorning diffrent motors into diffrent applications on anything since the advent of the auto and motorbike, for better or for worse.

I once had a small japanese truck with a V-8 Drivetrain swap, people said it was wrong, wrong, wrong in every way. I drove that truck with all its faults for 8 years and 200,000 miles. I'd would have certainlly rather have had a professionally built & enginereed $150,000 prerunner/ racetruck, but had to settle for a "shadetree special"...lol.
Sometimes things do work out.... against all odds, Priceless lifelong smiles when that truck beat Porsches & Corvettes of the day. But a motorcycle, introduces 100x the risk of injury..so any modifications should be carefully thought out.

Good conversation all.

[BRIAN TURFREY]

Hello Rusty... no that "dig" was directed to the person that built that bike that is in the magazine from Canada. I have so much respect for others out there that tinker with all sorts of bikes just like me. I try to do my best to help people in anyway i can with there projects. In this case a friend of mine paid "TOP" $$$ for this bike based on pictures and info from the seller. From the out side this bike may look great? But I can a sure you.... it a fucking pile of "SHIT". There are so many things that are just ??? ie; Chain rides on the gear lever shaft? engine is tilted at way to much angle for oil in gearbox? Nice CNC engine brackets with rubber mounts.... and 8mm and 6mm bolts that stick in the ports ( that just blows my mind how whoever thought drilling into the cylinder base and taping a thread into the port wall at approx 5 or 6mm thick to hold an engine mount was ok ? ) Had new 2mm offset Wiseco piston in with re gupped used head gasket? way old cranks that are probably from day one stock new 1984? ETC, ETC, ETC

and you know why i get pissed off? 1) the seller told the guy it was completely fresh rebuilt? ( total fucking bullshit ) 2) Seller claims, "His words",,, "BEST RZ500 EVER ... PERIOD".

You know.... i went through this same kind of thing with everyone's friend on this site.... "the crankshaft seller"
Took Mickey's motor and money and ran? Thankfully with a bunch of peoples from this site help i was able to help Mickey and his brother John get there bike bike to them and running. I guess i was really closed minded that i really didn't think people screwed people over to much on this kind of "HOBBY" ? Boy was i fucking wrong?

So Rusty, to answer your question about mounting.. brackets.. rubber mounts.... YZR500 cast in the case mounts... etc etc. I am telling you to look at an RZ500 cylinder upside down at the base.. just like the picture shows where whoever drilled and taped the holes... and if "ANYONE" thinks it fine to use that thin wall port area to use as a mount area... "I'M TELLING YA,,,, YOU HAVE SHIT FOR BRAINS"..

Sorry to be a bit harsh there folks

[Questo vecchio rz]

Gotta say..I like you Brian.
You really make me f#cking laugh,
Your Honest, and tell it like you see it, and what I like is you have no problem explaining ( educating & enlightening) others. That & your hospitality and work ethics, receive my respect.

Id like to let people know, this man doesnt procrastinate, hes on your projects in some capacity right away, they dont languish in a corner of a dirty shop for months on end. His shop is very clean, organized and everything he talks about is from a practical viewpoint. Thats a breath of fresh air.

Is like to thank you for taking on my friends projects, as he is new to the RZ/RG hobby and has had the runaround from several other "tuners", The engine in his RZ is purportedley from the same builder you speak of, according to the build sheet. Im pretty sure you probably know that, and yoy have already diagnosed it completley, but I can provide that to you if you ever needed it for comparisions sake for any fact checking..

I see no reason it would not work out well for each of you.

Best wishes

[BRIAN TURFREY]

Back at ya Questo.... but you are way wrong about one thing.... me don't procrastinate? hell i am the biggest one there is... i invented that

It's not about me... it's all about people being fair when you do something for them. Your $20-00 bill is the same as mine.
Scott is a wonderful people and clearly enjoys his toys to. I am not shocked in anyway about his motor if it came from the same place. Not even going to go there unless people want to see pictures of shit that would turn there heads on there shoulders.... Ask Scott to show you the cylinder and crank pictures? all new parts ha? Just complete bullshit you are told it's a new rebuilt motor and it is clearly not?
If i lived close and paid the $$$$$ that you people are now.... i for sure would have driven to the guys place and you would see a person with an RZ500 stuck up his ass sideways

It's really not hard to see why some really good people like RGV Steve and others are closing shop cause of all the fucking bullshit you have to deal with.... I maybe too, doing the same thing ?
Oh well, enough B.S from me

[RuZty]

Thanks for the follow up Brian, I now understand your frustration and that the info giron posted was based on first hand experience. I'm sure you have plenty of people walking into your shop to waste your time, so thanks for taking the time to come here and share what you know. For the time being this is a shrinking hobby and the last thing we want is talented people getting pissed off and folding their tent. FYI Steve actually popped up on the 350 board the other day and dispelled the rumours of his departure.

[silverstrom]

I suppose everyone is entitled to an opinion, but this is quickly getting slanderous and won't end well. Egos and attitudes.

[giron]

John step back for a minute and ask yourself

How many people on this board has a resume that is compatible to Brian Turfrey. Yes I know Brian and he has strong opinions. At the same time how many people on this board have been a member of the Yamaha Motto GP team? How many members have received engines from Yamaha to dial the engines while at the same time building pipes. Pipes that Eddie Lawson, Wayne Rainey used on the YZR500 that were competing

I have spoken with Brian at what other engine builders charge to rebuild an RZ500 and all he does he shakes his head. He can't charge that kind of money.

Brian also ran his TZ250 team.

[BRIAN TURFREY]

Silverstrom, it's got nothing to do with "egos and attitudes"... it's about being fair and not getting ripped off for what you are told something is.... and turns out it's not?

So let me ask you my friend, next time you buy something that is not what it said to be.... and you pay top $$... please let us all know how that "corn cob " in your ass feels? ( YOU WOULD BE HAPPY RIGHT? )

Cause i know the people that got there bikes are not real happy?

again, not about egos or attitudes.... If you think it is about "egos and attitudes"..... then let me tell ya, i would rather have a big mouth ego and attitude, than have a "HE RIPPED ME OFF " ?

"do un to others...like you would want done to youself"

[silverstrom]

So let me ask you my friend, next time you buy something that is not what it said to be.... and you pay top $$... please let us all know how that "corn cob " in your ass feels? ( YOU WOULD BE HAPPY RIGHT? )

I guess I'll find out when I pick my bike up at ATR next week.

[giron]

John if I can ask an RG500? stock?