HELP WANTED, Identifying pipes

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Questo vecchio rz
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:36 pm

HELP WANTED, Identifying pipes

#1 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Sun May 19, 2019 3:41 am

We came across these pipes on a old project bike,purchased here in Calif last week, that has been here since 85. There formed, not sectionals..so led me in one direction at 1st...
1.) 1st thought early Toomeys, due to snapring silencers, but silencers are different on the can ( narrow lip) at the back where's Toomeys have always had a thicker lip. And as far as I know always used their exclusive design on all their silencers for all models. Plus Toomey would never use rivets...lol and finally there just not long enough , these exit too close to bodywork. IMO just as on the 350s Toomeys offered by far the best performance, 98% sure there not Stuarts. But could have been very early versions ?
2.) Then possibly Spec 2s but they don't match pics I have (sectional) , nor the memory I have either..also as Toomeys do , Garys pipes extend 5-6 " out the back, these do not.
3.) There not Original Jolly silencers..I don't think ?? ..correct me if I'm wrong. I've held Jollys but only w aftermarket silencers.
4.) Nikon's...silencers are too different.
So I'm kinda at a loss, maybye? Pissibly..Tommy Crawford's?
The thin lip shape on the can looks like the old FFP design.
(Factory Performance Pipes) silencers but on smaller diameter cans..
Any feedback would be great as there going up for sale, after there identified and cleaned up.
Ist pic is as they sit on the old bike. So any help appreciated, let me know,
look at her bikes, phone a friend..ask anyone you know. Would like to find out asap.
Thanks!
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Banshee (Baja) Full Tilt desert race bike
Royal Enfield 500
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura TT-F1 Lucky Strike rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ421/YZR track bike(project)
86 VFR750 Flying Fred Merkel replica (project)

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busa1300
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:45 am
Location: N Indiana

Re: HELP WANTED, Identifying pipes

#2 Post by busa1300 » Sun May 19, 2019 8:16 am

Maybe scan some Japanese web sites to see if you can find a match.
I have seen quite a few different versions of pipes on auctions.yahoo.co.jp
78 GS1000E
80 KD80
82 Katana
84 RZ350
84 RZV500R
86 GSXR1100
86 1100 sportster
88 FZR1000
89 RGV250 VJ21 SP
90 RGV250 VJ22 SP
91 TZR250 3XV2 SP
96 RGV250 VJ23 T SP
99 RS250
02 Hayabusa
16 KTM 390 Duke
17 KTM 1290 Superduke GT
21 Aprilia RSV4 1100

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TwoStrokeNut
Posts: 585
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:12 pm
Location: Florida,USA

Re: HELP WANTED, Identifying pipes

#3 Post by TwoStrokeNut » Sun May 19, 2019 9:57 am

The look very much like my Tommy Crawfords with a different baffle inserted (mine are straight with beaded outlets). Baffles are held in place with the large snap rings like TC. Same bulge in the lower chambers. The silencers rivet on in the same fashion with the rivets inserted radially.

Scan through my build thread for pictures of my pipes when I had them off.

If you want to sell them, let me know.
Project bike links: NS400R - TRIPLE THREAT // RZ500 - MOSQUITO CONTROL BIKE // RZ350 - REVIVAL
'72 H1-500/'75 H1-500/'85 RZ350/'85 NS400R/'01 DR650/'07 FJR1300/'18 Tiger 1200

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TwoStrokeNut
Posts: 585
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Location: Florida,USA

Re: HELP WANTED, Identifying pipes

#4 Post by TwoStrokeNut » Sun May 19, 2019 10:06 am

Here is what I found for your comparison... sorry, they were already wrapped.

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Silencer...

Picture 506
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Picture 508
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Lower pipes...
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Last edited by TwoStrokeNut on Sun May 19, 2019 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
Project bike links: NS400R - TRIPLE THREAT // RZ500 - MOSQUITO CONTROL BIKE // RZ350 - REVIVAL
'72 H1-500/'75 H1-500/'85 RZ350/'85 NS400R/'01 DR650/'07 FJR1300/'18 Tiger 1200

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TwoStrokeNut
Posts: 585
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Location: Florida,USA

Re: HELP WANTED, Identifying pipes

#5 Post by TwoStrokeNut » Sun May 19, 2019 10:11 am

Oops, missed the part about them going up for sale after you clean them up. Would you be interested in selling them as is, before cleaning?
Project bike links: NS400R - TRIPLE THREAT // RZ500 - MOSQUITO CONTROL BIKE // RZ350 - REVIVAL
'72 H1-500/'75 H1-500/'85 RZ350/'85 NS400R/'01 DR650/'07 FJR1300/'18 Tiger 1200

Questo vecchio rz
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: HELP WANTED, Identifying pipes

#6 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Mon May 20, 2019 4:30 am

Heya, 1st things 1st a sincere Thank You for taking the time and providing the photographs. I'll be darned if they look almost identical. Ive got a couple more posts in other sources as well, I think we're close to a definitive answer. I don't think Tommy Crawford did many RZ500 sets. His hydroformed RG500 and RD400(Moto Carrera) pipes were at the top of the food chain, just awesome performing pipes. I've had very good luck with formed pipes, they always have been better performers...at least for me and I like the way they look as well.
Man knows what he's doing, no doubt. If I recall Jim Lomas gives him credit for teaching him the trade.
As for selling them, that is my friends goal, I'm helping him with information and paths to sell them. I help him locate bikes, parts to buy and sell.
He loves the bikes but a business and large family doesn't allow him the time, I'm basically a certified motorcycle/car fanatic and offer my help from all I've learned over the years. We've Known each other since the age of 13, as close to a brother that I could ask for. So it's of no burden to me.
Just a heads up hes already cleaned & polished em up, much better now.
He will be back in town later this week, if your still interested I will be more than happy to put you two in touch with each other. Your more than welcome to PM me your contact info.
Just sold the set of Jolly Moto GPs here to a gentleman in AUS, buyer sent pics of them now mounted on his 500, They looked the business! All the money earned from selling extra RZ Parts is going toward his RZ /Deltabox YZR replica build that Brian Turfrey is being so kind to do for him.
He & I alike, enjoy buying & selling through the forum to fellow enthusiasts, as we know how these parts that make up our dream bikes makes us feel.
Thanks again !!!

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TwoStrokeNut
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Re: HELP WANTED, Identifying pipes

#7 Post by TwoStrokeNut » Mon May 20, 2019 12:42 pm

You're welcome. Its just my way of giving back to the forum that which I receive.

Yes, there are plenty of indications that mine and your "brother's" are the same make. Others I see are the upper rear hangers, which have slots in them, while the lowers have cylindrical holes for mounting. The spring hooks appear to be the same too.

During my conversation with Rick Lance (may he rest in peace) about the work he did on my RZ prior to me owning it, he identified the pipes as Tommy Crawford's. I have yet to find any other source confirming them as such, however. Rick spoke highly of them and told me the dents in the large sections of my lower chambers should really not affect performance at all.

This link has some mention of Crawford pipes on a Gamma: https://www.rzrd500.com/500phpBB3/viewt ... 810#p97913

I've only owned this one RZ500, so I don't have any comparison between stock, Crawford, or any other brand pipes for that matter. But I will say the power delivery of this bike is wonderful. Low and midrange power is much higher than expected from a high-strung 2-stroker. Its actually pleasant to just putt around on and has a fairly quiet but sweet tone doing so. Of course, it begs to be ridden hard and performs nicely there too. After thoroughly cleaning the carbs, I was expecting to go through a complete tuning exercise. But it ran so perfectly, I didn't have to touch the carbs again. One afternoon, I purposely tried to find a stumble somewhere by trying WOT in all gears from various RPMs. Couldn't find one!

I wouldn't change a thing on the tune of my bike. And that is why a replacement set of (undented) Crawfords with their plug-n-play aspect is attractive to me. My other option is trying to remove the dents, but I have never tried it.
Project bike links: NS400R - TRIPLE THREAT // RZ500 - MOSQUITO CONTROL BIKE // RZ350 - REVIVAL
'72 H1-500/'75 H1-500/'85 RZ350/'85 NS400R/'01 DR650/'07 FJR1300/'18 Tiger 1200

vfinegold
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 5:11 pm

Re: HELP WANTED, Identifying pipes

#8 Post by vfinegold » Tue May 28, 2019 5:03 pm

This is longshot but they could be built by Gary Shumake from Spec II. In the mid 90's he had chambers similar to these hanging in his shop in the San Fernando Valley.

Questo vecchio rz
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: HELP WANTED, Identifying pipes

#9 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Thu May 30, 2019 11:16 pm

vfinegold wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 5:03 pm This is longshot but they could be built by Gary Shumake from Spec II. In the mid 90's he had chambers similar to these hanging in his shop in the San Fernando Valley.
Hey Thanks, There definitely not Gary's pipes. He welds cone sectional pipes, and generally tunes for Max race performance. As a result Gary's pipes are quite long, very Similar to Toomeys design...they perform really good, especially at WOT, that's there strong point.
These pipes are Hydroformed, and the only person I've seen do that as a standard was Tommy Crawford.
I've received some E-mails and apparently Crawford's RZ500 pipes are very rare,and as stated above by the forum member, very strong oriented street/race pipes that deliver a significant Increase in power in the mid-range.
Rick Lance RIP stated to my friend that there were no better pipes for the RG or RZ500, and that Tommy was retired he was attempting to coherce him into making a run of RG and RZ pipes at some point. Unfortunately it now seems that may never happen.
With the photos and comments above , and two other replies I've had it seems indeed that these are a set of TCs. If owner is having Brian Turfrey fabricate a set of purpose built pipes for his YZR repli style bike. The uppers will exit straight on new subframe, while lowers are to be tucked deep into a arched swingarm. Otherwise he'd keep these kick ass pipes.
He's deciding on a price, so these pipes will be up for grabs soon if not now. If anyone is interested, I think? hes going to want about a $1200.00 for these due to the rarity and performance they offer. That's well below what a custom set costs to fabricate, so hopefully they can go to a good home. I'll call him and ask if he wants them listed yet.
They would have to be offered up to (TwoStrokeNut) first , as he already inquired. I know trades for RG500 parts might work as well... lol 🤣
Anyways if anyone has any additional input, by all means please let me know, It's certainly appreciated
Banshee (Baja) Full Tilt desert race bike
Royal Enfield 500
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura TT-F1 Lucky Strike rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ421/YZR track bike(project)
86 VFR750 Flying Fred Merkel replica (project)

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