How Are These Pipes Made?

General forum on engines, transmissions, gearing and modifications to each

Moderator: rztom

Post Reply
Message
Author
kenny
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:20 pm

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#61 Post by kenny » Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:45 pm

I believe they are TSI pipes he is making

User avatar
Smoker
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1757
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 am

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#62 Post by Smoker » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:24 am

kenny wrote:I believe they are TSI pipes he is making
Oops! Sorry about that.

Probably a freudian slip, because your pipes give me a boner. :mrgreen:

kenny
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:20 pm

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#63 Post by kenny » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:44 am

nice comeback :smt002

theredbarron
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:38 pm
Location: swansea

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#64 Post by theredbarron » Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:15 pm

No disrespect to Gary P as he has clearly spent a lot of time fabricating those pipes but as a 30+ years experience welder i must say he really needs to get himself off to welding courses. He can dress the external surfaces and make the pipes look presentable but all the excessive penetration is going to give him problems in the future. Not criticising him but he must have plenty of free time.
If only there was more free time.

MK
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:54 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#65 Post by MK » Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:12 am

How about contacting these guys?
Seems to me it's close to what you're targeting?
Attachments
IMG_91647320377077.jpeg
IMG_91647320377077.jpeg (29.26 KiB) Viewed 4829 times
Bye
Martin

User avatar
Smoker
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1757
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 am

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#66 Post by Smoker » Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:17 am

MK wrote:How about contacting these guys?
Seems to me it's close to what you're targeting?
Thanks, Martin!

Haven't seen those pipes before. Hell yeah! Those are stunning.

I'll bet they don't make RZ pipes, though. Hope I'm wrong, but I'll surely find out. :smt023

I have a feeling those pipes are made by the same company as the Tyga titanium pipes.

Both companies are in Thailand.

User avatar
Smoker
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1757
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 am

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#67 Post by Smoker » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:08 pm

Still interested in custom pipe fabrication.

Started asking around about using alternative materials/techniques.

For starters, how about TIG welding mild steel with silicon bronze rod or 309 stainless rod?

Any opinions?

MK
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:54 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#68 Post by MK » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:10 pm

Welding mild steel with a stainless rod is possible and I did it on several projects (but not on pipes yet).
Bye
Martin

theredbarron
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:38 pm
Location: swansea

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#69 Post by theredbarron » Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:24 pm

Hi Smoker, TIG brazing is pretty straight forward as for using 309 filler for mild steel thats a no no as its a complete mis-match makes no sense.
In industry we always use welding fillers which are compatible with base materials and would never use s/s filler on mild steel to mild steel, in service the weld will fail. You can though weld mild steel to stainless using 309. Not to get to technical its all down to avoiding "hot cracking" which is controlled by ferrite levels. We could go on for pages but nobody else would be left on the site :smt015
If only there was more free time.

User avatar
Smoker
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1757
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 am

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#70 Post by Smoker » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:43 am

theredbarron wrote:Hi Smoker, TIG brazing is pretty straight forward as for using 309 filler for mild steel thats a no no as its a complete mis-match makes no sense.
In industry we always use welding fillers which are compatible with base materials and would never use s/s filler on mild steel to mild steel, in service the weld will fail. You can though weld mild steel to stainless using 309. Not to get to technical its all down to avoiding "hot cracking" which is controlled by ferrite levels. We could go on for pages but nobody else would be left on the site :smt015
That's a good answer. I'm just trying to learn and explore what's possible. And you're right - I don't need a bunch of theory to make a decision.

The person that suggested using stainless wire with mild steel is (also) a pro welder. Perhaps he was saying it's possible, not that it's a good idea. Silicon bronze rod was also suggested. I'm supposed to go see Roger today, a different pro welder, and I'll ask about stainless wire with mild steel and see what he says, just out of curiosity.

Yesterday, I spoke to one of the best pipe-builders on the planet - and I asked the question. The answer was unexpected and wonderful. He said- "I don't really know, because I never use filler rod."

I checked the Lomas pipes I have, and the welds are completely flat. Pretty obvious that none, or almost no rod is used. Then looked at Spec2, Toomey, and '87 OEM pipes - all have welding beads that stick up well above the surface. The OEMs and Toomeys also look like MIG, not TIG.

So, probably using NO filler rod is best, but still doesn't answer the question as to what's possible. Still very interested in mild steel pipes with TIG brazing. Would mild steel pipes crack or fail if they were TIG brazed?

User avatar
Smoker
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1757
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 am

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#71 Post by Smoker » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:30 am

Just wishing I could get pipes with this kind of look!

Image


Was just on Mark Dent's Facebook page. Holy shit! Definitely master class pipe fabricator. :smt107

Definitely saw some kind of brazing on his pipes. Seen it on Shearer pipes, too. But, not for the cones - for the stingers and brackets.

Image

RuZty
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:39 pm
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#72 Post by RuZty » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:42 am

The main difference with brazing and welding is the mechanism used to join the material. A butt weld as seen on the pipe cones above joins the metal edge to edge either with filler or just a fusion weld melting the 2 pieces together. It is now one piece of metal with a fairly constant thickness, albeit varying properties across the heat affected area.
Brazing on the other hand has a different means of joining metal. Bicycle frames use tubes that fit closely into lugs, and the lower melting point filler flows into the small space between the 2 parts by capillary action and creates a very strong joint due to the large surface area. It does not melt the base metal and mix with it as a weld does.
The same effect is created by forming a fillet of the brazing material at the junction of 2 pieces as seen on the frame pic above. Again the filler creates a strong joint by having lots of surface area contact with the tubes. Notice the tig weld on the gusset behind the steering head where a fillet could not be made. It could have been done on the inside corner before putting it on the frame, but would not have looked as nice.
I think the brazing on the pipes above is used where there is an extra tube joining the stinger to the convergent cone. I haven't seen brazing used as a suitable replacement for butt welds, not saying it is impossible, but the fitment of the cones would have to be reconsidered and temperature could also be an issue towards the front of the pipe.

User avatar
2smoke
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:18 am
Location: Niagara, Ontario,Canada

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#73 Post by 2smoke » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:33 pm

I have a pair of Moto Carrera pipes for my rd400 that are mild steel brazed together.
Pretty shocked when I opened the box. Gold seams, kind of blobby, but not too bad. They are powder coated now, but I will see if I took pictures before.
Colin

Questo vecchio rz
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#74 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:43 pm

2smoke wrote:I have a pair of Moto Carrera pipes for my rd400 that are mild steel brazed together.
Pretty shocked when I opened the box. Gold seams, kind of blobby, but not too bad. They are powder coated now, but I will see if I took pictures before.
Are you sure there Moto Carreras? I've never viewed a sectional pipe from Doug, only his built to T Craword design spec stampings of his Millennium GP pipes , then his standard millenuums which are basiclly same as original Toomeys from what Ive been led to beleive.
Fantastic performer's either pipe.
Banshee (Baja) Full Tilt desert race bike
Royal Enfield 500
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura TT-F1 Lucky Strike rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ421/YZR track bike(project)
86 VFR750 Flying Fred Merkel replica (project)

User avatar
2smoke
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:18 am
Location: Niagara, Ontario,Canada

Re: How Are These Pipes Made?

#75 Post by 2smoke » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:21 pm

Not sectionals. 2 formed halves joined down the middle. I will look for pictures tonight.
Colin

Post Reply