Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

General forum on engines, transmissions, gearing and modifications to each

Moderator: rztom

Message
Author
Scbr1
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 10:26 am
Location: Taunton UK

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#16 Post by Scbr1 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:04 pm

I feel your pain brother lol, don't think you will ever get to the bottom of it. I think most try to go, if poss n-8 14 hole needle jets in all 4 carbs as the latest bikes came like that, Yamaha trying to lean things out a bit. Would it put things right for you if I sent you another 2 n-8 10 hole needle jets so you got 4 the same, that's what I would do & don't think you would notice a difference between 10 or 14 hole ? I got another 2 in the garage in real good nick. After that I'm outa stock lol but don't think I will be needing them ever.

Steve

User avatar
nzminis
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:29 am
Location: New zealand

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#17 Post by nzminis » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:33 pm

ok i have had 6 bikes from japan
all of them had the restrictors cut out the exhaust , all of them had the std 10 hole tubes 5 had 165 mains and one had 155 , the rest of the setup was stock ,pilot .needle pos,air jet
ok so you dont know what time line they were done . lets say they were done at the dealership when they were new
why did they not feel the need to change them . if parts were available

all of those bikes ran fine . i did not feel that any jetting changers were needed or it was to rich and any spot
i feel the major restrictor was the exhaust not the jetting

i tested all tubes with my bike .. i have a set of aftermarket ones that measured more then the n-8 so they must be 0_o.. they were rubbish ,far to rich

managed to get 14 hole n-8 Rz ones . i could not feel any difference between the rzv 487 tubes and the rz ones . that was back to back testing within 1/2 hour


if you had 14 hole rz ones i would put them in , if not i would just run the 487 Rzv and be done with it

User avatar
nzminis
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:29 am
Location: New zealand

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#18 Post by nzminis » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:41 pm

i also just found a set of 1.5 air jets in my box of jets
wonder if you will notice a change from the 1.1 to the 1.5

just looking the Rz500 s was the last run of bikes ? says used 1.1 air jet what bike used the 1.4 ?



also we need to view a 1gg parts manual ,, you might find that the 345 tubes are from that run ?

as all the bikes i had were 51x and had 487

Blobber
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:34 am
Location: Lancashire, England

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#19 Post by Blobber » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:16 am

Hi Steve - thanks for the offer of the 2x N-8 10 hole (487). That would be very kind of you and much appreciated if you could send them to me - brilliant.

I tried my first carb set up yesterday N8 (345) front O-0 (345) rear 22.5 pilot and 1.4 air Ivans needles and floats at 23mm.

On the road the overall on off throttle response at small/medium openings cruising in traffic is vastly improved only issue was that the
very first initial bit of throttle caused a bit of rough sputtering particularly at lower revs which I interpreted as possibly a weak pilot circuit.
I changed the air jet to a #1.1 and there was a good improvement but not totally cured. The problem seemed to be at a slightly more open
throttle position. Still only a small throttle opening but the problem had shifted on a bit.

After some further thought I believe the problem lies with the pilot to needle transition and I think it is the 345 series emulsion tubes causing
the problem. If you look at the bleed hole pattern there are no holes at the bottom of the tube which corresponds to the initial movement
of the needle and problem area I have. This I think is making the bike rich as you come onto the needle although once you start feeding
in more throttle the mid throttle/ mid rev response of the bike is now fantastic with Ivans needles.

I could just move the needles down a notch to weaken but I think this is just masking the issue which is the emulsion tubes.

Next test will be to fit 4 x N-8 (487) and if that doesnt work I will have to get the additional holes drilled to make them 475 spec.

I think the fueling is now very close to what I want. If the carbs were easier to play with I would like to try a different needle position
pilot size etc but not sure I can face that many strip downs!

Thanks again Steve for your kind offer I look forward to receiving the N-8s.
Cheers mate
Trevor
Bikes:
RZV500R FZR1000 forks wheels JL pipes
RD350LC N2

Blobber
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:34 am
Location: Lancashire, England

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#20 Post by Blobber » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:35 am

Hi NZMINIS,

I think what you are saying is right re the 10 hole and 14 hole N-8 (487 & 475).
My problem lies in that I dont have 4 of the original RZV N-8 (487), my bike was derestricted for some strange reason
using N-8 and O-0 (345) with no bleed holes at the bottom of the tubes.
I am hoping when Steve sends me his spare N-8 (487) tubes that will finally sort my bike.

Re the #1.5 air jets that will make your bike run weaker and maybe with stock needles that would be a useful mod?
Easy enough to try. With my current set up the #1.4 was definitely too weak and coming back to #1.1 improved the
tick over and low speed running.
Trevor
Bikes:
RZV500R FZR1000 forks wheels JL pipes
RD350LC N2

Scbr1
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 10:26 am
Location: Taunton UK

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#21 Post by Scbr1 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:38 am

Hi Trevor

I will put them in the post for you today so hopefully you will get them tomorrow & they sort out your carb probs.

Interesting that you went back to the 1.1 pilot air jets (richer) did you use the A needles middle clip position ?

Steve

Blobber
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:34 am
Location: Lancashire, England

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#22 Post by Blobber » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:05 am

Hi Steve,

Thanks again for your help with the N-8 (487), I'm thinking these 4 will do the trick and sort it.
I feel it is very very close to being perfect but for the slight stumble. Ride it hard and it is fantastic
now with the new needles so hoping the N-8 (487) will just refine the fueling at the pilot & needle transition.

The drilling of the pilot jet hole would probably help in the transition as Ivan says but will hold off with
doing that for the moment.

Yeah with the #1.4 air jet the bike was a bit blubbery and the stumble was far worse. Put the #1.1 in and it is far better.
But the stumble was still there but just not as bad.
The pilot is telling me its was too weak and the needle jet was telling me it was too rich!
I presume I have a correct pilot mix and still a rich needle jet issue. The plugs after 30 miles of varied riding were a bit
dark in my opinion again supporting the rich needle jet theory. I could lower the needle I suppose but would rather try the N-8
(487) first and play with the needle later if required.

My current needles are 'A' with the clip in the middle position.

The 'B' needles will just make it richer so not bothering with them at the moment.

Are you still contemplating which of your Ivans needles to use or just psyching yourself up for the carb strip - LOL
Cheers
Trevor
Bikes:
RZV500R FZR1000 forks wheels JL pipes
RD350LC N2

Scbr1
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 10:26 am
Location: Taunton UK

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#23 Post by Scbr1 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:19 pm

Hi Trevor, yeah just trying to summon the strength to strip the carbs. Going to put the A needles in clip in middle position then give the bike a run. Then may have to put the 1.1 pilot air jets back in like you did it it feels fluffy at low revs / pull away. I may also try the needles with clip 4th groove from the bottom if I haven't lost the will to live and my 49 year old knees can take the kneeling on the garage floor that much lol.

Blobber
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:34 am
Location: Lancashire, England

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#24 Post by Blobber » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:45 am

Hi Steve - I put the N-8 487 needle jets in my carbs yesterday evening and will hopefully get a ride out later today to test.
I can do these carb strips in a couple of hours or so now!!

I have a feeling like you that a slightly weaker needle setting will be required for the ideal setting but I stopped myself
changing it as best to test one thing at a time and I'd rather have a slightly richer setting anyway. As long as there is no
stumble or miss fire I will be happy.

I have high hopes for this set up!

Ivans needle A, clip in middle position
22.5 pilot
1.1 air jet
175 main jet
float 22.5mm
N-8 (487) needle jet in all four carbs

fingers crosssed
Trevor
Bikes:
RZV500R FZR1000 forks wheels JL pipes
RD350LC N2

Blobber
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:34 am
Location: Lancashire, England

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#25 Post by Blobber » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:39 pm

Halleluiah its sorted!
Smooth on and off the throttle even down as low as 2k revs amazing its finally the bike I thought I'd bought 10 years ago.
Maybe just try the larger #1.4 air jets just to see any difference and then thats it
Brilliant, couldnt have done it without your kind assistance Steve (Scbr1)
What a bummer though just realised when tidying up the garage floor I'd only put 2 screws on one of the float bowls.....ah well carbs off again LOL
Trevor
Bikes:
RZV500R FZR1000 forks wheels JL pipes
RD350LC N2

User avatar
two-stroke-brit
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:07 pm
Location: Houston tx

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#26 Post by two-stroke-brit » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:26 pm

Scbr1 wrote:Hi Trevor, yeah just trying to summon the strength to strip the carbs. Going to put the A needles in clip in middle position then give the bike a run. Then may have to put the 1.1 pilot air jets back in like you did it it feels fluffy at low revs / pull away. I may also try the needles with clip 4th groove from the bottom if I haven't lost the will to live and my 49 year old knees can take the kneeling on the garage floor that much lol.
a lift table was the best money/pain relief i have ever spent .(apart from the twin Thia girl stress relief massage) :smt005 .
save those knees
She might not be pretty but always a fun ride !!

Scbr1
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 10:26 am
Location: Taunton UK

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#27 Post by Scbr1 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:10 pm

two-stroke-brit wrote:
Scbr1 wrote:Hi Trevor, yeah just trying to summon the strength to strip the carbs. Going to put the A needles in clip in middle position then give the bike a run. Then may have to put the 1.1 pilot air jets back in like you did it it feels fluffy at low revs / pull away. I may also try the needles with clip 4th groove from the bottom if I haven't lost the will to live and my 49 year old knees can take the kneeling on the garage floor that much lol.
a lift table was the best money/pain relief i have ever spent .(apart from the twin Thia girl stress relief massage) :smt005 .
save those knees
Yeah have given a lift table a thought may now invest in one & can double it up as massage table also. Suppose 2t oil is a good as massage oil :grin:

Scbr1
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 10:26 am
Location: Taunton UK

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#28 Post by Scbr1 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:14 pm

Blobber wrote:Halleluiah its sorted!
Smooth on and off the throttle even down as low as 2k revs amazing its finally the bike I thought I'd bought 10 years ago.
Maybe just try the larger #1.4 air jets just to see any difference and then thats it
Brilliant, couldnt have done it without your kind assistance Steve (Scbr1)
What a bummer though just realised when tidying up the garage floor I'd only put 2 screws on one of the float bowls.....ah well carbs off again LOL
Trevor
Trevor, well pleased you got the bike sorted m8, and I could be of some help. Schoolboy error with the carb screws lol. Next time I need the carbs off mine will give you a call you must be able to do it blindfold by now in in record time. Let me know how you get on with the 1.4's if you bother to try.

Steve

Blobber
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:34 am
Location: Lancashire, England

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#29 Post by Blobber » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:06 am

Steve - just installed the air jet #1.4 and will take for a spin later today and let you know how it goes
Trevor
Bikes:
RZV500R FZR1000 forks wheels JL pipes
RD350LC N2

Blobber
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:34 am
Location: Lancashire, England

Re: Which Emulsion Tubes to use with Ivan's Kit

#30 Post by Blobber » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:25 am

Tried the #1.4 and I feel it is a little on the weak side popping and banging in the exhaust and some uneveness on the slightest of throttle openings. Still runs pretty good though but reverted back to #1.1 which is what Ivan recommends anyway.
Thanks for all the help especially Scbr1.
Cheers
Trevor
Bikes:
RZV500R FZR1000 forks wheels JL pipes
RD350LC N2

Post Reply